Tag Archives: answers

Juror 17 Part Two!

Kara is still tweeting:

1. Did it creep you out the way Hodi stared at you whenever you would enter or leave the courtroom?     I never paid attention! I looked down when I walked in and down when I walked out.

2. What about how she looked at the jury when answering each question?     I understood it was probably their strategy! Didn’t phase me I was at the other end anyway!

3. What do you think of her tweets? If you had known all that you know now, would your opinion be he same?     Yes, because I’m not surprised!!

4. Have you seen all the interrogation videos?     Not all but quite a few.

5. Have you seen the media ‘blitz’ Jodi did before the sentencing? If so your thoughts?     Ridiculous but that’s Jodi wanting the spotlight!!

6. How hard was it for you to sit through it all and not vote? Were you able to take part in discussions or did you just have to sit and listen?     I was devastated! Cried as soon as we got out of the courtroom! The alternates were taken to a different area.

7. Did the 4 jurors acknowledge the Alexander family, like the ones that were crying and mouthed ‘I’m sorry?’     I don’t know! I was balling and looking down! I was too sad to look at them!

8. Did it freak you out how close Jodi was to you during allocution?     We were closer in judges chambers.

9. You were in chambers with her?     Yes, quite a few times!!!

10. Did you know she had a shock band around her waist?     Nope, had no idea!!

11. Is Dr.Horn as beautiful in person as he appears on TV?     Yes!!!!

12. What did you think of the 7 dwarf testimony?     I have to admit I did laugh when LaViolette said she didn’t know how old the dwarfs were! Was funny!

13. Were you shocked at the time-out comment?     I was irritated when she said this! But he was snarky with her too! Was a long 10 days or whatever it was!

14. Did you think the Locks of Love/book club/recycling was odd?      I did because I didn’t think you could just start your own program in prison!

15. Was it frustrating aitiing through Alyce & Samuels testimony knowing they were making $300 an hour spewing #blah?     It was frustrating period!!

16. Have you seen the video yet of TA telling the story of being robbed w/gun to his head that was identical to Jodi’s ninja story?     Yes!! We saw the video w/o sound and the story was so important!!

17. Did you think the gun used was her Grandfather’s?      Absolutely!

18. Did you ever notice Jodi peeping up through her hair to see the crime scene photos?     No I didn’t! I was too upset myself seeing those pictures!

19. What do you think came 1st- gun shot or knife wounds?     Idk that it truly matters…he suffered so much pain either way! But I think the stab definitely did!

20. How did you feel about Jodi when she was drawing and not paying attention in court?     Beyond irritating!!

21. Did you see the parent’s interrogation video where Mom said Jodi was growing pot on the roof?     Yeah I think those tapes would have helped.

Tara has stopped Tweeting for the moment. She’s heading to LA with Juror 6- Diane.




Juror 17 Answers Questions

Tara Kelley, one of the alternate jurors has been tweeting answers to peoples questions via twitter. Here is some of what she has to say:

1. Do you believe she was abused in any way?     Definitely not!

2. Did you believe her “fog” story?      Absolutely not!!! Was definitely not believable!

3. Regarding the jury ‘betraying’ her:      It’s all about her!!!

4. What did you think of LaViolette’s testimony?      Didn’t like her! I found her rude trying to spar with a prosecutor!

5. Regarding Nurmi wanting off the case:      Definitely can’t blame him for not wanting ti represent her!!

6. Regarding the juror who got kicked off for a comment she made- Tara confirmed the comment was about how if they can $300/hr for an expert you would think they’d get us more comfortable chairs. She also indicated that the jurors were not the ones who turned her in.

7. How did you feel about the pedophilia accusation?      Disgusting and ridiculous! I asked her for proof in my questions to her! Of course she said she didn’t have any!

8. Did anyone buy it (the pedophile comments)?     I don’t think anyone bought it!!! Too far out there!

9. What did you think about her claim of ninja skateboarders?     Ridiculous! And then Juan kept referencing the hoard of skateboarders and it was sooo hard not to laugh out loud!!!

10. How did you feel about the 2 minutes of silence?     Brilliant!!!

11. How did they ask you about the media issue with Juan (Signing/ photos)?     They didn’t mention it was Juan! Just asked a general question!

12. Do you feel Juan was too aggressive?      He definitely had moments but I think it was passion!!!

13. Have you seen the killer laughing and doing headstands in the interrogation?      What made me most mad was when she said: ‘Gosh Jodi you could have at least done your makeup.’

14. What did the jurors think about ‘child abuse’ claims?     She was probably spanked but weren’t we all?

15. Do you think the trial dragged on too long?      Definitely!!!!

16. (Nurmi) was basically calling you all liars and that you were going home at night reading, watching, etc.      I heard enough in court! No interest in goin home to hear more and we weren’t supposed to anyway!

17. Was Bill Z. the foreman throughout the trial or just the guilt phases?      Foreman was chosen at the guilt phase.

18. Travis’ anger all sounded normal relationship to us. You too?      Yes and I really hope to be able to explain what I think happened and what that May 26 text was about!!

And it looks like we will get a chance to hear Tara’s theory as she is scheduled to talk with HLN’s Darren Kavinoky and Dr. Drew this coming Tuesday.


Arias trial 5/1 part 3- with Jury Q & A

Jury Questions (paraphrased)

1.  How do you feel events such as incarceration…can affect the tests?”     MMPI- increase paranoia, depression, anxiety. No effect on MMCI (long term traits).

2.  Could an individual score differently after a traumatic experience like killing someone than before?      Depends on tests. Trauma inventories- yes, definitely. Personality tests- yes, can be impacted…depression.

3.  Discuss high/low scales on validity page of the MMPI. (He goes through and most are normal). Exaggerating is elevated- distress/cry for help.

4. OK for old version of test / old version of DSM?     DSM gives criteria for diagnosis. Like a guide. Not good to use outdated one.

5.  Changes between TSI 1 and TSI 2?    26 new or rewritten questions, 6 rewritten or taken out.

6.  PDS valid if lying about the event?     If lied…yes that’s important. If this didn’t do it and it’s made up then where did it come from? Why occurring?   Showing PTSD? Evaluator needs to find out.

7.  Lack of hemorrhage (blood) = lack of injury to the brain?   I assume gun shot is after death…depends on how far after…maybe not as much.

8.  A gun shot at a short distance wouldn’t drop a person?   Depends on caliber.  Even shot gun didn’t incapacitate…usually if through the side it will.

9.  If you get no compensation for this case…any organizations you are involved in?     Yes, the Institute will bill for services. 70-80 hours so far, $85-250 an hour, total $13,000 – $14,000. A small part of our budget.

10.  Regarding lying on the tests?    Validity tests detect these people.

11.  Possible to manipulate the four tests?    I could probably…you can go on the internet for the MMPI, tell how to fake it. Not possible with a battery of tests.

12.  If Dr. Demarte had additional evidence to support BPD would you see it in her report?   Yes.   Did she include this?    A little bit…most were from after meeting Travis. Has to have a pattern over years.

13.  Criminal act (?) cause anxiety?     If close by.   Considering years in jail?    I didn’t evaluate her- not my role.  (Not sure I got these right).

14. Did you know you were evaluating Jodi Arias.   I knew they were (the tests) Jodi’s.

15. Had you heard of the case?    No.              I was basically given the tests. I didn’t know the details.

16. Can bullets travel (again I missed part)? Yes, if it hits something it can.

17.If there is…(I missed)  answer: I could not.

18. Something about the summary scales…?    I was informed by the defense that she did not know they existed. Not using it is one thing, not knowing about it is another. Also using it to diagnose BPD…there’s entire books written on the MMPI…

Follow up, JW:

  1. DSM tr didn’t have different criteria for PTSD.
  2. PDS still had a trauma it matters but doesn’t make it invalid.
  3. TSI tests were similar over years.
  4. If she had/has BPD how do you explain all the trauma?
  5. Bullets aren’t his specialty but it would have had to go through sinuses and deflect through motor strips. Also the membrane is intact.

JM is up:

  1. He goes through and asserts that her pattern of consistency in tests is LYING! They argue over whether ‘exaggerate’ means ‘lie’. JM says so if the prosecutor says he’s 6 feet tall…Dr: “It’s likely both.” They argue some more.
  2. PDS test is based on a lie. Does it call into question the validity of the test?  “Correct.”
  3. MMPI info- says valid, but maybe exaggerated?
  4. The different DSM books come out around every 10 years. Dr. Demarte gave the TSI 1 when the TSI 2 had been out for 6 months.
  5. He didn’t know Dr. Samuels indicated to look at a possible personality disorder.
  6. They argue over what he had said about Dr, Demarte being unqualified. It was partly due to what the defense lawyers told him.
  7. He is getting his salary for today as well as the Institute getting paid.
  8. He no longer treats patients. He consults. JM implies he testifies mostly and he denies it.
  9. The Dr. has only worked with 2 projectiles in the head. JM points out that is less in terms of experience to the one who conducts autopsies. He agrees.

JM calls Dr Horn, the ME back up:

  1. Autopsy photos back.  Not a lot of blood in skull=bled out/deceased. He draws the path of the bullet (a direct line). The brain was too decomposed to find the trajectory. If last wound it did nothing, if 1st then he would have collapsed within 1-2 seconds.
  2. JW on cross: It would take seconds for blood to drain from the system. Though the brain was like pudding he could still get slices. There was no wound track. He is not familiar with research about people with frontal lobe injuries being ok. Never in his experience.
  3. Juror Question (HLN cut off the beginning- I got something like Are they deceased when you do the autopsy? “I hope so.”
  4. JM –Gun shot immediately incapacitating? ‘If he was alive.” And if dead that would explain the lack of blood.
  5. JW-This is your opinion? Yes- my training and experience.
  6. Jury question about the intact membrane—he looks at his report and says it was a typo.
  7. JM re: the perforation- he says there would have had to have been as it sits right where the bone was tore apart.
  8. JW – You reviewed your report- Yes. You know this case is serious? Yes. You made a mistake?  Yes.
  9. JM brings in Dr. Jill Hayes she does mostly forensics psychology.  Bachelors in 1990 from Armstrong State College. Augusta State=Masters 1992. Took a year off study- worked in testing. Then Louisiana State U. 1998=PhD. Was on faculty at LSU-asst. Prof. Licensed 1999. Became Associate Prof- was with for 8 years. See patients, research, admin…Katrina hit- LSU under water so came to Az. Now mostly forensic, still sees some people and police officers. Testified 75 times, 50/50 defense /prosecution.

10. She is familiar with the TSI test. It requires a trauma. She has not reviewed the PDS test in this case. Question #14 –the trauma. If it is a lie –that would give you concern. If the premise behind it is a lie it calls into question everything else. If symptoms are based on a lie how valid?   Of course the test would be invalid. If you know something is a lie how do you know what is the truth.

11. Floating profile- almost 8 in elevated range. Who coined it- a person named ‘Strong’ and it meant that they are experiencing arousal, overwhelmed and applied to BPD. JM shows her JA’s profile.  An outdated term… a little, but still researched and used. JM: Dr. Gatchell said it is no longer valid…Dr. Hayes: With all due respect I would disagree…he has done more research and changed the name for his purpose with spinal patients. It still was associated with BPD patients.

12. TSI –Measures trauma. Are you incompetent if you use the TSI 1 after TSI 2 available? No…some wait for additional research to see if the new test works. The peer reviewed literature doesn’t suggest that either…there is no standard. Includes summary scales – it can. Requires summary scales.  The hand scoring = there is no spot for summary scores. I contacted the publisher and asked…and it wasn’t a requirement. You can just look at the 10 scales.

13. MMPI-Use for BPD? It’s helpful but need other pieces of the puzzle. You can’t just look at a few tests and come up with a diagnosis, you need to evaluate, interview…JM- Would you need to give any test before you gave this one? <Objection> To determine level of reading ability? You have to insure they can understand it. In this case WRAT 4. In this case was it to get more money? In this case it would only take 5 minutes.

14. JW-Can’t you just give them something to read? No- you won’t have any normed opinion- JA was at 12th grade level. If she had read through thousands of pages of Journal and texts and she can read/write, and IQ of 112…isn’t that enough to say she can read at a 5th grade level. “Well it’s 6th-8th grade level…if she had not done that she would have been criticized for not doing it. She only did reading recognition. I would have done it.” MMPI not used to diagnose. For personality and psychopathology. MCMI normed against known psych. disorders. More research done with regard to personality disorders actually on the MMPI. I would give both. If just one I would choose the MMPI as it’s better researched. MCMI is great for helping determine characteristics but MMPI is research based as well. Scoring and summaries on the TSI. Best to use updated tests? You will know it’s coming out.  Dr. H: Generally the research before is done by the people who own the test so they have a lot to gain. Also a wealth of research on the old test. Because she didn’t have it is that a good reason? It sounds crass but these tests can get costly. JW- You had to call somebody to check if summary scales were required? On this case- yes. JW: There are instructions on how to score summary scales? Dr: Not on the hand-scored test.

15. JW- Floating Profiles and Dr. Gatchell. ‘Formerly known as the floating profile’ because he works with pain management. It’s called a ‘disability profile’ with his patients. Many had BPD also. Didn’t review the PDS. JW-If lied about how the trauma occurred but there was still a trauma. Dr: If they only lied that once how do you know if they’re telling the truth? If trauma was a bear/no tiger- does that invalidate the rest of the test. Dr: I would be very concerned. When this is self-report and the initial event was a lie then how do you know the symptoms stemming from that are true? The symptoms could still be there whether tiger or bear…with proof. Need to also look for more evidence.

16. If your not sure about the PDS test and PTSD can you give other tests? ‘Definitely.’ You can’t then ignore the tests given.

17. She has done 4 Death Penalty cases in last 4 years or so. For prosecution in all those.

18. License in 1999- so four years. She has had previous experience, pratice means you have a license…I wouldn’t.

19. JM back up.  Tiger vs. Bear…Gopher?  Difficult to continue? Yes if no physical symptoms confirms they lie. If event didn’t occur how it was stated then symptoms may not be true.

20. Floating profiles- out the window? No, author is clear- he never said don’t use Floating…State rests.

Court resumes tomorrow at 9.

Juror Q & A- LaViollette (4/12)

  1. Please explain why you feel Jodi is not manipulative either before or after the killing based on the review of statements and interviews.

Based on the information that I have,  (ummm) I don’t see a pattern of manipulation the way I would define it.  (umm)I haven’t seen that in terms of her trying to… (uh) and I’m not sure exactly what this is in  reference to so it’s a hard question for me to answer but I think anybody can be manipulative. What I look for are patterns and I didn’t see them in the materials that I read in terms of her relationship with Mr. A. so   I’m not sure how else to answer that.

**OK- I will skip the ‘uhs,’ ‘ums’ etc. Just so you know her sentences don’t always make sense. I also might paraphrase or skip a tangent. I will put  ‘>>>’ when I skip tangents…and this is close to a transcript- paraphrased somewhat.



  1. On the one side, we have demeaning multiple verbal slurs, a slap, a shove, a chokehold and a lunge perpetrated on Jodi. On the other, we have a gunshot to the head, a 4” deep slit throat and close to 30 stab wounds delivered by Jodi to Travis. Is not the perpetrator of the greatest domestic violence Jodi?
    I think what happened to Mr. A. is horrific <Objection> I think that self-defense <O> Judge repeats: Is not the perpetrator of the greatest DV Jodi? (waiting…) “No.”




      3.  In the hypothetical given by Mr. Martinez is it possible Travis was the one who told Jodi he wanted her to leave…if that were true then isn’t it likely Travis never hit her that day?     I can only go on the materials that I’ve read, (that were available to me) and when I look at that…ya know I don’t have face to face corroboration that he hit her that day. What I have is evidence that as she began to pull away things escalated.


      4. When Jodi went to confront Bianca about being with Matt can’t that be seen as  she did it because she was jealous?     It could be seen that way.  (Repeat). The nature of the confrontation didn’t seem to be hostile.  From either Jodi’s report Mr’ McCartney’s …so in that way she could have been motivated by jealousy but the confrontation or the talk didn’t seem to be hostile.


      5. Jodi went through Travis’ emails, messages and inbox (MySpace). Did you take any of that into consideration when making your assessment?     Yes I did.


      6. You bought Miss Arias books, apologized upon meeting her, and ordered her a magazine subscription. Did you do anything else to establish a relationship with Jodi?     Simply talking to her and meeting with her>>>spending the hours talking in jail with her but no, nothing else.


      7. Have you given her anything else?    No I haven’t.    Have you ever had any physical contact with her? Hugs, friendly touching etc?     I don’t think so, I might have touched her arm…in jail there’s a screen… and that was my meetings with Jodi…other than what you see in court.


      8. How do you know Jodi received spider man underwear from Travis on Valentines day? Did you see them? Pictures? Or anything else? The only thing I saw was the text message…she was bringing the Spiderman underwear.


       9. How many men have you testified for in criminal court?    I haven’t testified much in Criminal Court>>>so 1 or 2.


     10. If you had been given access to everything except interviews with Jodi how would your opinion have varied, if at all?     I think that um, well, I could have come to the same conclusion because part of what I read about the interactions between JA and TA, other women and TA, the Hughes’s responses, parts of his journals, first page of MySpace, and collateral interviews.


     11. Would you have adjusted your belief in the level of abuse if you had been given access to everything except the interviews with Jodi?     No because given my experience (and those she works with) the level of psychological abuse and character assassination was incredibly high in this case. (Gives example).


     12. Other than what Jodi has told you, in what other sources did you see evidence of physical violence by Travis?      I actually didn’t see other evidences of physical violence by TA, other than what JA told me.


     14. Would your analysis of this relationship change if, hypothetically speaking, you found out the stories of Travis being violent and masturbating to children were made up?      I would still rely on what I knew about the psychological abuse- (she goes into her working with victims) ….they say psychological abuse is worse than physical.


 15. Regarding non-verbal communication, do you think that you can read through a string of text messages, emails etc between two people and know exactly what the non-verbal communication is?      No.


     16. How do you know tone, meaning, inside jokes etc. if you cannot get both sides of the story?       Well there would be no way for me to interview Mr. A. but I read so much of what he put together (she talks about history –written documents) …rely on the written evidence and I had a fair amount that I relied on.


17. You said other sources said Jodi was not manipulative, who are these sources? Mr. McCartney and Mr. Brewer (previous boyfriends) she had longer term relationships with and when she was older I didn’t read about her being manipulative to her sisters or brothers…there was this period when she was young and a teenager (teens can be manipulative) …but as an  adult I didn’t hear her described that way at all.


18. When interviewing Jodi you claimed you did not asking leading questions. If someone asks a simple question that elicits a simple y/n response, would you consider that a leading question?     Gosh I’ve been asked a lot of y/n questions and I think they’re questions, I don’t think they’re leading questions. … I work very hard not to do that.


19. You say Travis has no indication of being stalked. He displays no fearful behavior and continues his contact with Jodi of his own accord. How do you reconcile Jodi’s claim of DV if she continues her contact with Travis of her own accord…where was her fearful behavior?      Domestic Violence and stalking… tend to be different. …Battered women go back and forth…you don’t see people leave and stay gone and their fear develops over a longer time.  Stalking- fear tends to develop in a shorter time…real stalking occurs when end of the relationship. And no more contact is desired. >>>


20. Do you consider someone who says: “no jury will ever convict me” to be a person with low self esteem?     It sounds like a really foolish statement to me…I don’t know what to say about self esteem but it doesn’t seem like a good statement to make…


21. How can you say that Jodi and Travis’ relationship was abuse with no proof other than name calling on paper and Jodi’s word?       It’s the degree of name calling and putting down, the level of escalation. And the words of his 2 closest friends, his relations with other women…so it’s not just from JA’s words>>>those kind of words I don’t think anyone would want their daughter called those kind of words>>>they would see it as abusive.


22. Do you handle cases where the female is the abuser?      Yes I do.


23. Did Travis discuss abuse of Jodi or any other women in his journal entries?      No, he didn’t.


24. In all the evidence you reviewed, was there any indication anywhere of Travis claiming stalking by anyone else other than Jodi?      No, I don’t believe so.


25. Of the times you have testified in other cases, how many of these were in def. of men?  Not just criminal, I’ve also worked in family law…of the 18 times I’ve testified that I have worked 3 or 4 and defense has a broader brush… referrals I’ve had men accused of beating their wife and children  and I’ve worked with the attorney and also intervention//  (//means Mr. Martinez objected and the Judge moved on to the next question)


26. What is the manifesto you referred to during your testimony?      I actually don’t know because I’ve never seen it.


27. Is there a type of stalking… that a person is comfortable around someone in person but are afraid of them or what they are capable of when they are not around?
There’s …when you look at abuse…and battering…when moving apart and coming back together – there’s disbelief the relationship is going to end. There might even be a protective order, they might meet again for dinner- very common. Still some back and forth, that’s not stalking. Once the stalker realizes you mean business…that’s when their behavior will escalate and get worse.


28. When speaking of blackmail and being threatened, are you aware that Jodi threatened Travis by saying she would let out that he was a pedophile?      I was not aware of that.   Does that mean anything to you?      Yes, of course it means something to me, yes.


29. You stated it would be beneficial for Jodi to write things she was lying about in her journal, to buck up her story. How would she write about these things if her story didn’t change until well after the killing hypothetically speaking?       If she had planned something …on being separate from Travis, it seems like she would use, she would be building up a story that would use all this. I don’t see a plan here to separate from Travis and build a self-defense case.


30.   Regarding the text from Travis to Jodi where he is upset about her BS story from Michelle or Elena, what exactly was the BS story that Jodi told Travis?       The ‘B.S. story’ the woman came into the restaurant and told Jodi that Travis was with Lisa…(which was true). Where did you get this info?   ….came from the communications.  What Jodi gave me and what Lisa wrote, so it wasn’t a B.S. Story.

You stated that Travis was the one lying in this message, how do you know this for sure?      Because I read the information from Lisa…so there was corroboration. How can you know that Jodi’s B.S. story was not a lie? (Not the subject but the actual story that was told.)      I can’t I don’t know the story that was told to Travis.


31. You seem to believe that when the argument began between Jodi and Travis prior to the Havasupai trip that he called her upstairs that he only wanted to pursue an argument. How do you know he didn’t want to get the issue resolved and calm her and may have been embarrassed in front of the Freemans?      I don’t know that and I didn’t use heavily in my assessment.


32. Can you explain how Ms. Arias can remember physical abuse incidents so vividly but does not write anything, not even a reference to her feelings, in her journal?      About the incidents? (Judge re-reads) I believe, well, there were different places she wrote references to her feelings…I can’t explain what somebody does…can’t explain what they don’t write down.


33. You testified writings could have supported her statements however, is it possible the incidents of abuse reported by Jodi were reported after the fact as a secondary gain to benefit her?     That’s possible, that’s possible. I didn’t rely just rely on her oral or verbal report.


34. Do you have any evidence other than Jodi’s word that Travis made her tear out pages and write only positive thoughts?     No I didn’t.


35. Who, from Jodi’s past did you interview that were able to rule out Jodi’s manipulative behavior being a pattern?      I wasn’t able to interview anyone from her past directly. I was given the interviews that were done at the beginning. There were at least reviewed 20 collaterals, more collateral sources in this case than any case I’ve worked on.


36. You told us that you like to meet with each individual before analyzing the relationship. We have heard Jodi’s side of the story. Can you tell us Travis’ side of the story?       Well, by law I can’t interview//  Travis’ family. I obviously can’t interview Mr. A. I had 7 hours of unedited footage regarding Mr. A. that people spoke very well of him…with friends and family. Looked at some of the things he did. He was kind and generous, he made people laugh and motivated people. I didn’t feel he was a one-dimensional human being. I feel that there were very good parts of Mr. A.>>>  Mr. A had some outstanding traits.


37.  You mentioned that stalking could fall under the abuse and battery columns in your continuum. If that is true why is stalking excluded from those columns? Actually because when I talk about that in training I call that normal stalking – neither party believes each other>>>pull back and forth…common for someone to get a protective order and the partner believes they can keep pushing…until actually enforces the P.O. that they change their mind…they know that they mean business. Is your continuum incomplete?  Why not list all the appropriate bullet points for the appropriate column?      Yes, my continuum is incomplete. It is. I’m messing with it all the time. (Goes on …dead sea scroll…framework…)


38. You stated that you have chosen not to take cases in the past because you did not believe an individual. Did you take this case, in part, because you believed Jodi?   Yes.     If you did not believe her would you have chosen to turn it down?      Yes.

If you start out believing in an individual doesn’t that, by default, set up  prejudices towards their partner?          No, because I’ve had cases where as I’ve pursued them I’ve found them not credible and I’ve talked to the attornies  …if I don’t find enough credible evidence I don’t testify>>>I don’t have a great retirement after 34 years //



39. You stated that regarding anger, it is more common for someone to have a burst of anger, then calm down. Is it possible that Travis’ rants seem longer because they are being viewed in text form?      Actually they go on over a period of 2-3 hours which is pretty long and then follow up with the other//  There were long rants, the longest to me was 2-3 hours- I Think it was the 5/26th, date not as important as the context, there was a follow-up>>> this went on for another, I think for 16 pages or something like that…it’s an extensive length of time.


40. Can you explain what you mean by a burst of anger? Can a 10 or 20 minute rant be described as a burst?      A 10-20 minute  could be described as a burst. What you look at (gives example of a case) is what’s in that burst.


41. If a couple has an argument that takes all day to end can they still be in a healthy relationship?      Yes, absolutely.   Would that type of argument indicate abuse?      It wouldn’t indicate abuse at all.


42.  Is it possible for 2 people to be abusive to each other?     Yes.


43. Don’t you believe that Travis making comments about a 12 year old girl while having a phone sex conversation with Jodi is fundamentally different than Travis allegedly masturbating to photos of young boys?      I think it’s different it’s just an unusual comment to make from a 30 year old man about a 12 year old girl.


44. Would you characterize your knowledge of June 4, 2008, as light or incomplete? I think some of the details of where something happened  I’m clearer on it now but I knew in general what happened. I was focused on what led up to June 4th and what happened June 4th.


45. Are you confused on any of the details of that afternoon?     Well I was, I said that  I believed that the shot was fired in the closet and it wasn’t. I think I know most of he detail.            some of the dates where something happened..I was focused on what led up to June 4th and what happened June 4th.


46. Do you think it is deceptive for someone to not share the most private and intimate details of their lives, like their sexual activities, with their friends and family or do you consider it normal to keep those things private?   I think most people keep the details of their sexual lives private.    If normal, why do you think Travis’ attempts to keep those things private is deceptive?      I don’t think him keeping his private life, his sexual life is deceptive. I think putting himself out as someone who obeys the Laws of Chastity and is a 30 year old virgin is deceptive.


47. Did you ever see evidence that Jodi was openly sharing all of her most private sexual details with her friends and family? No, I didn’t. Would you consider that deceptive? No, I don’t. She never claimed to be a virgin. Certainly she was part of the Mormon faith and not going along with the Laws of Chastity.


48. You say Jodi’s lies started after she killed Travis, how could you possibly know this?      I can only go on the reports of people in her life prior to that, once again primarily the 2 men that she spent most of her adult life with when in her 20’s  (Matt & Derryl) neither described her as a liar.


49. Do you believe that Jodi was subjected to sexual degradation at the hands of Travis?      I believe she participated in the relationship, went along with things >> wanted to be in that relationship and went further than she should.


50. You stated that you saw no signs of Travis being sexually degraded by Jodi. Noting his desire to see her in Ca., his actions on the sex call and various texts, i-m’s etc. Couldn’t that same argument be made regarding Jodi’s alleged sexual degradation given her desire to see Travis, her actions on the sex call, etc?     Yes, I’ve not heard Jodi say she was sexually degraded and humiliated…not heard her testimony…hasn’t made claims of that.


51. Considering only the written conversations and journals (excluding the interview with Jodi) did you see abuse?   Please explain.       I’m confused by that – I’m thinking it’s about  Jodi’s journals and 2 interviews, if I excluded  those things,  I would still see that as abuse.     What level would you place that abuse?    The   verbal abuse was in battering>>>  Definitely battery.


52. Considering only the journals, did you see an escalation?      Oh, yeah, I saw an escalation over time the rants longer, put-downs are worse. Him talking about his own anger being scary.


53.   You mentioned Travis was in a 7-year relationship with Deanna. Are you aware of anyone interviewing her to determine if she was a victim or survivor?      I don’t know of any interview with Deanna.   I didn’t see anything that indicated that she was a survivor of abuse.       Did you interview her?     No, I did not.


54. You keep saying that Jodi doesn’t match your definition of manipulative. Is it possible that your definition of manipulation differs from others?      Yes, yes it is. Is it possible that your definition is wrong?      Sure.


55. Yesterday you mentioned Jodi’s behavior towards her mother. Do you honestly believe that hitting and kicking your parents are normal behavior at any age?        No, I don’t believe I said it was normal teenage behavior. I said it was not appropriate teenage behavior. But it is behavior teenagers do. I don’t think it’s good behavior.

The summary for after these questions will follow.