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Why Wash the Camera?

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One thing I feel compelled to address- the camera. I keep reading on the internet people saying that JA accidentally washed the camera. I don’t think so. In my opinion she took great delight in washing Travis’ brand new camera that he bought for the Cancun trip. If you recall she said on the stand that she was careful to stay a few feet away from the shower so the camera wouldn’t get wet. This proves she thought getting it wet would ruin it. I’ll bet at first she thought to just delete the incriminating photos, then after trying to clean the scene she grabbed the towels and clothes and then thought to wash it. I can just see her grinning as she is pouring bleach over his brand new toy and then turning on the machine. She wanted to destroy it just like she destroyed him.

Finished- 4/18 summary (with juror questions)

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(#18 continued)

-Identity: JA changes the way she looks; implants, hair color, to fit in. Changed religion in 2 months after meeting Travis.

-Suicidal Ideation-In her journals.

-Instability: She has quick changes in emotions-all her men saw this.

-Emptiness: She told JD she often felt this way.

-Intense anger: Breaking door and windows, In journal she says she has hate inside of her. Though 1 anger score was los 2 others were high.

       19.  Travis was angry in the e-mail because she had invaded his boundaries and       lied.

      20.  JM asks if JA was a victim of abuse. JD says there was no pattern of abuse.

 

Juror Questions:

1.  How many forensic cases have you worked on?   I’ve been working on them for several years.
2.  How many times have you testified ?   3 times.
3.  How many cases involved abuse?     In my general practice it’s common to have abuse involved. For forensic cases I’ll need a second to think…
4.  Hypothetically if a person suffered PTSD from a bear attack while hiking would you throw out their PDS test if they lied and said it was a tiger?     Yes- those would be different events. A lot of time with PTSD is there are triggering events that remind them of the trauma so a bear and a tiger would look different, smell different, act different. The subsequent symptoms would be associated with those variables.
5.  Would the person be answering the question the same whether they called the animal a bear or a tiger?     They would be answering it very different.
6.  Do you believe absolutely that it is possible to remain purely unbiased in an evaluation once compassion creeps in?    I do think it’s possible to remain unbiased.
7.  What types of people are at risk for having Borderline Personality Disorder?    Anyone’s at risk but there’s a higher rate in individuals who have been exposed to trauma and neglect in their lifetime. One of the things that’s often talked about is this idea of constantly being invalidated by family members. For example if a child gets hurt and is crying, an example of invalidation is a parent saying: “you’re not hurt, you’re fine” They’re invalidating their feelings. That increases the chances of developing BPD if it happens frequently throughout their childhood.
8.  Do you feel ‘mark my words no jury will convict me’ is part of borderline personality disorder especially since she is smiling when she says it?     That’s a sign of immaturity that I talked about before. These kinds of immature statements are often seen in people with BPD.
9.  Wouldn’t taking the camera rather than leaving it show more organizational thinking capability?    Both are an example of organizational thinking, just different types of organization with the goal being to hide the evidence.
10.   When asked by the defense about efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment you stated you had other examples for this category that did not involve Travis. Can you share those examples?
Throughout her diary she used the word abandon ‘I feel abandoned’ She made that comment at least a couple times with other boyfriends. They would cheat on her and she would continue in that relationship and subsequently befriend them despite being treated in that kind of way.
11.   Do you think trying to delete photos and washing the camera as an attempt to destroy evidence?   Yes, it gives the impressions that she was trying to destroy evidence.
12.   If you had not seen pictures proving the evidence was recovered from the camera, would you have viewed this as an effective attempt to destroy evidence?
Yes, my knowledge of cameras is that it would be destroyed if you put it in water.
13.  In your opinion is it normal for a person who is incarcerated to be depressed and have anxiety?    Yes, I’ve worked with many individuals who have been incarcerated. It’s not something unusual.
14.  Do you consider Arias shooting; stabbing and slitting Alexander’s throat a traumatic event?    It depends on how Jodi reacted it to it. If she had this horror and fear associated with it then yes, I would consider it being associated with PTSD.
15.  Why didn’t you re-administer all the tests that the previous experts had given?    I felt like the tests that I gave answered the questions I needed.
16.  Do you know what the differences are between the TSI1 vs TSI2?   There’s a slight difference but I’m not that familiar with it
17.  Regarding the PDS answer sheet, do you know whose handwriting is on it?     No, I would have to assume…
18.  Do you see any issues with Dr. Samuels filling out the answer sheet and possibly summarizing?     Yes, the only time that should happen is if there’s an impairment  (physical handicap) that prevents the person from filling it out themselves. .
19.  Does it cause concern that the written answers appear to be answered by someone who is familiar with psychological verbiage and not layman’s verbiage?
Yes, that’s very concerning.

 

JM is up:

  1. He asks how many forensic cases she has worked on- JD: around 75.

JW is up:

  1. JW says staying in relationships with cheaters could just be low self esteem.
  2. Anxiety and depression could be jail is not uncommon. JA still scored high on those when she did the TSI for before jail.
  3. They go over why JD didn’t use the newer version of the TSI- her workplace had not purchased it. She has only done the TSI one other time since.
  4. JW gets JD to admit if the data is transferred correctly it may be okay to hand write the answers and transfer them to the answer sheet.

Arias Trial -4/18

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Today was a long one- here is what I have so far:

Willmott vs. Demarte:

  1. They agree that Fight/Flight mode is to survive and some memory can be affected. Also that if memories aren’t encoded they won’t come back- JD says that it’s rare. JD points out JA has no issues with encoding memory now (she claims that brain can be damaged with prolonged memory loss and though JA claims a long memory loss she shows no signs). Also gross motor skills can still function.
  2. They argue over who deleted the photos from June 4. JM objects when JW keeps saying ‘…when Travis ‘attacked’ Jodi. JW implies that since JA is a photographer she could delete photos easily. JD contends that choosing  which photos to delete is different. JW says she has no knowledge of whether JA deleted all photos or choose photos.
  3. Regarding cleaning the crime scene- JW says JA didn’t do a very good job.
  4. JW claims leaving the camera there with evidence of JA being present shows she didn’t plan/organize this. JD says yes she did as she tried to destroy the camera by putting it through a cycle. JW claims there is no mention it went through a cycle.
  5. JD claimed JA’s memory seemed worse since talking to Dr. Samuels. JW says it’s just she didn’t get as much info as Dr. S. because she didn’t spend as much time with JA.
  6. JD finds it ‘unbelievable’ that JA ‘saw blood on her hands and thought something bad had happened.’ JA told her that she ‘knew she had killed Travis.’ They argue this point until JD concedes, somewhat, that her opinion is subjective.
  7. JW lists several tests given by Dr. Karp to determine if JA was a battered woman. JD did not give any ‘battered women’ tests to JA. JW and JD agree that battered women tend to minimize.
  8. They go through the Borderline Personality Disorder examples given by JD. JW says there has to be evidence of BPD before June 4…JD agrees.
  9. BPD point 1-Avoiding abandonment. JW points out that though JA did move to Mesa after the breakup they had never stopped talking and had taken trips and had sex together later. JD says JA crossed boundaries by looking at Travis’ texts and Facebook without his permission. JW says they exchanged their passwords.

10. BDP 2: Unstable relationships. JW says she moved out as a teen and had just 4 relationships since. JD points out she went from boyfriend to boyfriend (and her childhood friend indicated the same), and she had 10 different restaurant jobs as well as other jobs. JW makes the mistake of having her confirm that – and she does, along with the 10 restaurant jobs she worked as a receptionist at a spa and also as a childcare giver. JW points out she was with Brewer for 4 years and Matt for 2 showing stability.

11. BPD 3: Self image conflict. Joined the Mormon church quickly. JW says that Travis sent missionaries to her house until she converted.

12. BPD 5 (she didn’t qualify for #4): Suicidal ideation. JD says it occurs a lot in her journals. JW says there was no actual plan to commit suicide. JD says the idea was there, also friends and parents indicated the same.

13. BPD 6: Instability. Happy to sad in the same journal entry (JW-just one data point).

14. BPD 7: Emptiness. JA described feelings of emptiness to JD (another data point). JW says this was after June 4.

15. BPD 8: Anger. JW asks about any pattern of physical abuse and JD brings up that she kicked her Mom. JW says they were arguing (and JA was a teen). JD says her Mom had just made a neutral comment. JD also indicates the family said JA had internal anger through most of her life and that people described her as ‘irritable’ and ‘upset.’ JW says people also described JA as kind, loving and happy. They go over the e-m from yesterday where JA says she kicked in door, etc. JW points out that e-m started with her being compassionate about Travis. Asked if JD ever spoke to JA about this e-m she says she didn’t as she had already done the interview.

16. The MMPI test scores twice as a protocol.

17. JW brings up not going behind the words and enters the e-m from Travis to the Hughes’. Travis felt fondly for JA and said: “They don’t get more honest than Jodi.” Then the May 26th e-m (Travis and JA) JW points out all the names he calls her and how it is character assassination. JD points out that there is a pattern of bad language within the texts but there are only a handful of these types of texts and they were a response to her. They argue over whether this is a pattern of abuse. Asking about getting info behind the word- JD says she can’t ask Travis as he is no longer here. JW says other ways to confirm.

Afternoon Session

  1. JW wants to clarify:

-The 10 different restaurants were over 15 years. JD says no, it was 8 years; they were after she worked at her father’s restaurant.

– Mom said JA mentioned suicide after June 4. JD says it’s part of the pattern.

-She doesn’t go from boyfriend to boyfriend as she was single for months after Matt. JD says that is not what she told her.*

-She tried to move on by joining LDS linkup. JD didn’t know.

-Travis called her names starting with ‘skank’ in Jan. 2007…abusive? JD says no, just ‘what he called her.’

-JD is not a DV expert. JD says she meant there is no license for DV. She does have a Clinical Psych. license and a lot of experience in DV.

-Jan. journal entry- after he broke finger- ‘nothing to report’ data point? JD: “Yes.” JW also mentions: “Cannot marry him…there’s something off…”

        2.  MMPI test results are valid. Anything over 65 is clinically significant. JA scored 65 on depression. JD says she doesn’t interpret the scales JW wants to discuss. JW does anyhow-JA’s low-positive-emotions were a 70. JD says she doesn’t use as not enough research backing these scales.

       3.  MMPI content scales (JD does use). Anxiety=76. Depression=elevated. Bizarrementation (bizarre thoughts)=elevated. JW says these are often associated with trauma? JD: “Among other things.” Anti-social personality=below avg. (average). Low self esteem-broken into 2 categories: 1. Self Doubt (Identity)=68 2. Submissiveness=60. Anger=avg. Anger subscales (JD says this is an inappropriate use of the MMPI) Explosive/Irritability=normal.

4.  MMPI supplementary scales. Anxiety=elevated. Repression=above norm. Ego strength=below norm. Dominance=below norm. PTSD=77. Overcontrolled/Hostility=below norm. JW asks if there is a pattern of anxiety and low self esteem and JD says ‘anxiety-yes.’ Self doubt means a poor sense of self and submissiveness is still below clinical. JW- she has depression and anxiety- JD –yes. JW – all associated with Battered Women’s Syndrome. JD still argues these are not the scales she uses. JW goes on…anxiety, depression and low self esteem are all part of PTSD? JD- Some symptoms in PTSD and some in other disorders. They’re not always depressed or have low self esteem. They argue. JD is trying to point out you do analyze the low scores, only clinically valid scores.

 

Martinez is up:

  1. JD doesn’t walk in with compassion. Presents cross ethical guidelines. Staring with an apology seems biased. When biased you tend to skew things your way.
  2. The e-m to the Hughes’ where Travis says Jodi is honest- was before they were even boyfriend/girlfriend. The nasty e-m in May was at the end.
  3. JM tries to get in points regarding the stalking. JD recalls JA going into his Facebook, stealing his ring, deleting his e-m’s.
  4. JD explains that there is no license for a DV or PTSD expert- the only license for those disorders are Clinical Psych.’s and she is one. Mentions that Lenore Walker’s 6 points (to determine a battered woman) are still valid. JD says JA does not fit the criteria.
  5. Regarding experiences to avoid memories JA wrote about Travis in journal, went to Memorial, drove by his house.
  6. All Psych.’s charge for forensic testimony.
  7. JD didn’t list everything on her CV- it would be too long and she doesn’t have time.
  8. JD’s TSI was consistent with Dr. Karp’s. JD felt it was difficult to determine the specific traumas.
  9. JM asks if you would have anxiety and depression in jail. JD says: “Yes.”

10. TSI test during relationship with Travis. JA had anxiety and depression. JD mentions she felt that when with Juarez. Also both are indicative of PTSD and BPD. JD says that having a lot of elevations on the TSI indicates BPD.

11. JA’s stressors included thoughts, the crime, working with family and attorneys. She also had stress over the conflict between sex and her religion. General emotional stress is common in BPD.

12. JD says the MCMI is normed against clinical patients. Therefore the sensitivity is lower…both for PTSD and BPD.

13. Dr. Samuels got a disorder on the MCMI axis 2…’personality disorder otherwise not specified’ suggesting problematic personality traits.

14. Because the trauma sited on JA’s PDS was untruthful it is completely invalidated according to JD. (Including all the subsequent symptoms.

15. JD explains that most psych.’s don’t use certain scales on the MMPI test as they don’t have empirical support (no research backing it). The 3 scales she did use support BPD. Though the PTSD score was elevated it does not speak to a specific trauma- more ‘feeling out of control.’

16. Regarding the nasty texts- JD felt these were infrequent and happened when he felt lied to, betrayed <Objection> she knows this because Travis accuses her of lying. He reacted. They has many day to day texts that have no language like this.

17. The ‘something’s off with that boy’ comment goes on to say JA didn’t like a joke he made about spending time with family and JA ‘abhors’ that.

18. They go through the list of criteria for BPD and how it applies to JA (again).

-Avoid abandonment: hiding behind a Christmas tree at Travis’. Showing up unannounced repeatedly. (In previous relationships as well).

-Unstable relationships

-Idealize/devalue: JA says ‘something is wrong with that boy’ and ‘Travis is awesome’ in the same journal entry. JD says after Travis’ Memorial JA got the phone number from a guy on the plane and called him when she got home!

More tomorrow!

Arias Trial 4/17

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Willmott/Demarte

  1. Sexually violent perps will try to evade arrest (they agree).
  2. JD defines pedophilia: sexual interest in pre-pubescent children.
  3. JD has not lectured or presented on own at any conferences.
  4. Men who are abused more likely to grow up abusers.
  5. JD disagreed that women abused as children more likely to grow up to be victims.
  6. The greater the violence when young the worse the effects as adults.
  7. JD has not had anything published or peer-reviewed.
  8. JD has an ad in Psychology today. Her rates vary from $125-$300.
  9. JD says her cases in court are half prosecution and half defense.

10. She spent 12&1/2 hrs interviewing JA. 5&1/2 hrs testing. Did not go back to see her. Was going over materials before, during and after interviews. She spent about 50 hours going over the materials. She interviewed Steven Alexander for 30 minutes.

11. They argue over how long she’s been practicing- the website says 8 years (she has been seeing patients on her own for 8 years) but JW says no- 2 years as a psychologist.

12. In her ad she list specialties: Testing/evaluation, personality disorders and trauma/PTSD. JW tries to imply she’s no expert in trauma/PTSD but JD lists having trauma patients, research in trauma and teaching 4 classes in Abnormal Psych.

13. JD is not a member of any Trauma Associations and hasn’t attended any of the 2-3 Trauma conferences JW mentions.

14. JW implies she did not need to give the WRAT (reading test) or the WAIS (IQ test) as she already knew how smart JA was from reading her journals and pointed out she got paid $250 an hour to do these tests. JD says because she seemed so immature she felt the proper procedure would be to give these tests before the MMPI.

15. JW gets her to admit you can have compassion and still be unbiased (again).

16. JD hand-scored the TSI test. JW says the test she used was outdated- JW says though the newer edition had just come out her work had not yet purchased it.

17. JD has never used the PDS test- she uses other tests for PTSD.

18. JW implies JD infringed on copyright by letting JM see the questions from the PDS.

19. JW insists the trauma listed on PDS qualifies (though JD calls it a ‘falsified event.’)

20. The severity of the PTSD is low.

21. Argue over the terms ‘triggering events.’

22. Soldiers can have PTSD even if not wounded.

23. JW goes over the MCMI scores (again). Anxiety was highest- 75. Borderline was 11.

24. There was another personality disorder listed but they would not talk about it.

25. JD says JA isn’t battered because of inconsistent stories.

26. JW tries to prove JD doesn’t know anything about DV. She also claims the 6 identifiers used yesterday are out of date. JD does say she is not a DV expert.

27. Fight/flight is a response that you cannot control.

Afternoon Session- cancelled.

Back tomorrow at 9:30.

 

Arias Trial Summary 4/16

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  1. The defense rests.
  2. JM rebuttal: he calls Dr. Janine Demarte. JM goes over her credentials (she has a PhD, is a Clinical Psychologist, can adminster/score tests, does evaluations and therapy, has been a Director in a Behavioral Agency, oversaw and trained others, has testified in courts).
  3. They go over evaluation vs. therapy. Evals are not biased, therapy you develop a closeness, you treat them.
  4. JM establishes it is not good to go in with a hypothesis – you need to be open to all alternatives.
  5. An evaluator does not ‘go behind the words’ they use objective data. (They can’t say words mean something other then what’s written – so for instance when JA says: “Nothing noteworthy happened” in her journal she should be taken at her word).
  6. Law of Attraction has caused problems with patients as life is both positive and negative. Belief in this Law causes disappointment.
  7. JD says over 40 hours for Clinical Interview is ‘Extreme.’ (She’s actually never heard of it before.) She says the Clinical should be 1-4 hours. After that it becomes ‘therapeutic.’
  8. JD says it seems odd that anyone would walk in and start by apologizing. (Like AL did.) She says it would give the impression you feel bad for them and therefore not objective. Also mentions you should not feel compassion (like Dr. S. did.) That is bias and results would not be accurate.
  9. She did 12 hours Clinical interview, which she admits is a lot (still not 44!) She also did testing. JM asks if after done she went back (to see JA, like the others) she did not- you only go back for more data…it’s not ethical. Regarding gifts- like books- she says that is inappropriate and could influence the results of tests.

10. The 12 hours of Clinical went over JA’s history re: Medical, social, educational, childhood vs. adult, relationship with Travis, sexual experience, testing.

11. Apparently there was another person who tested JA- a Cheryl who she apparently JA claimed there was significantly more abuse than just the 4 incidents she told everyone else. Cheryl said JA had PTSD.

12. JD gave JA the ‘TSI’ (Trauma symptom inventory) twice- once for her current state and the other for when she was with Travis. There were slight differences.

13. It is Not Protocol to ask the questions and then transfer the data off a legal pad to an answer sheet on the PDS (what Dr. S. did).

14. Referring to the wrong trauma (the lie JA told about intruders) on the test invalidates the test. JD says that here is ‘other evidence that she lied on the test.’ (It is stricken.)

15. Regarding Dr. S. re-scoring a test 3 times-she says that you would only do that if you did not score it properly or if you were trying to manipulate the data.

16. JA’s score on the PTSD test of 69 does not meet the threshold (of 75) for PTSD.

17. The MCMI test is for clinically ill patients. (Not to test someone from the general population.) JD would NOT use the MCMI for this case.

18. AL’s approach was subjective- there was no testing and no report done. Makes it very difficult to verify her data/conclusion.

19. JA’s changing stories should have raised a red flag.

20. AL said Travis wasn’t afraid even though he said he was- that is not what clinical interview do- change meaning. This is subjective and unreliable and not appropriate in a forensic evaluation.

21. Before giving JA test she took and passed a reading test. (The WRAT.)

22. Next she gave JA the WAIS (Intelligence test) that measure 4 domains- 1-verbal comprehension, 2-perceptual reasoning –puzzles 3-working memory/short term (she did well here) 4- processing speed. Her IQ was above average: 119. She scored 136 in domain #1 (very high)

23. She gave JA the MMPI which is normed against the general population. MMPI helps determine personality traits which develop from childhood through adulthood. There are 2 categories- axis 1 (transient traits) and axis 2 (long lasting personality disorders). You would never read the questions and fill in the bubbles yourself- the client does. It consists of 567 true/false questions. It includes a validity scale. For axis 2 there are 10 types of disorders. If you score more than 65 you it’s worth looking at. Typically there are 1-2, maybe even 3 scores above 65. JA had 7 out of 10! (Lots of psychopathology present). She looked at the top 2-3 and identified: Aggressiveness, hostility, defensiveness, but these individuals do a good job of not displaying this to others. They anger when they feel wronged or someone is hurting them. They are prone to violent outbursts and externalize blame- the other person ‘deserved it’; it’s ‘not my fault.’

Afternoon Session:

  1. Those with several over 65 can be called a ‘floating profile,’ common in Borderline Personality Disorder.
  2. JD gave her the WAIS also because she seemed immature. (She sited JA’s mug shot looking like a high school yearbook photo and her parents saying she seemed ‘happy as hell’ when visiting her in jail.
  3. JD diagnosed her with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) . She says it’s a lot like being a teen; immaturity, instability in relationships, emotions, identity, manipulation.
  4. JM and JD go through the criteria for BPD in the DSM 4 TR and qualify with examples:

–       Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.  JA moved to Mesa after the breakup. She overstepped boundaries by hacking into e-m’s and facebook. She was intrusive- spying on people.

–       Unstable, intense interpersonal relationships. JA would idealize then despise boyfriends. Also a tendency to go from boyfriend to boyfriend. Describe the men in her journals overly sweetly- idealizes them despite what might be going on- adolescent.

–       Identity differences. JA’s sense of identity shifts depending on who she’s around. With Derryl she changed her hair and car to be like the ex-wife. She lived differently depending on which boyfriend- in a tent with Matt, more mature with Derryl, professional with Travis.

–       Impulsivity.  She doesn’t qualify.

–       Suicidal behavior and ideation. JA wrote about consistently in her journal since 1995.

–       Affective instability. JA was described by boyfriends as shifting emotions fast. Also would be happy and upset in the same journal entry. Parents also described this since young.

–       Chronic feelings of emptiness. JA showed  prolonged feelings of emptiness despite emotional turmoil since adolescence.

–       Inappropriate intense anger. JM brings in an e-mail to Travis where JA admits she has intense, inappropriate anger.

–       Transient stress/ paranoia. Did not find.

–       (They throw in here that she does not agree with Dr. Samuel’s findings)

–       Back to the ‘anger’ e-m mentioned above. JA says:  “…you know the secret…my anger is very destructive…I’ve kicked holes in walls, kicked down doors, broken windows…I strive every day to be the better person…” (JM adds that JA wrote that on Valentines day- there is no mention of a gift with Spiderman undies).

  1. JM asks if she agrees with Samuels on PTSD she does not.
  2. JD Wrote a report which she typed and reviewed.
  3. JM brings out Dr. S.’s first statement with his PTSD requirements- they do not meet the criteria.
  4. JD says if the PTSD is based on a trauma that is made up it is not valid
  5. JD says because Carp based PTSD on the many abuses (that no one else heard of) it doesn’t apply.

10. They go through the PTSD criteria.

  1. She did have a trauma- the killing.

              B.   JA never indicated re-living the trauma. Regarding JA thinking about the actual trauma- JD says she thought about it, but not to the extent of PTSD

              C.   She didn’t avoid the trauma- went to the Memorial, sent iris’.

              D.  Not sleeping well due to jail doesn’t qualify. No one saw a startle response.

She only met one criteria- a trauma due to the killing. So no PTSD.

11. JD says no fight or flight as she deleted photos and cleaned up- requires organization and planning. The brain doesn’t work like that. There may be some short term memory loss, but not as long as JA reports.

12. JD worked in research re: DV for 1 and 1/2  years. Evaluated, provided therapy, worked with perps and the children. Worked in prisons – group therapy in sexual crimes and assaults.

13. She does not believe JA was battered – Travis didn’t control her money or tell, her who she could see/talk to. She didn’t have medical problems or a bad body/self image.

JW on cross:

  1. She goes over JD’s CV. She does manage to get her to admit having ‘some compassion’ for those she evaluates, but it doesn’t affect her eval.’s.
  2. She lists tests she uses.
  3. Goes through different jobs.
  4. She didn’t know LaViolette. JW adds LaViolette got her Masters in 1980.
  5. JD does say those involved in sex crimes tend to minimize. But she does not agree that they keep it secret from family and friends. JD says they tend to know, for example if you’re a pedophile that you like activities that involve children, tend to have child porn on computer and may have been arrested.

Court begins at 9:30 tomorrow.

 

 

Arias Trial Summary 4/15

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Hearing Motions (no jury present)

  1. Grace Wong from In Session takes the stand. She is asked about whether she recognizes the faces of the jurors – she does. They show the story with JM taking pics and signing one autograph. She did not see any jurors present.
  2. Next up is Bryan Neumeister- a video/audio expert. Nurmi goes through his credentials. They bring up the picture of Travis’ face in the shower. He has enlarged it so that he claims he can see JA standing with both hands on the camera a few feet away (and no knife). The picture has lines drawn in by Neumeister to make the image clearer. He says it looks better in his lab. JM says he sees a dog and the picture is subjective. Nurmi claims it proves JA was telling the truth. JM doesn’t want the pic with the lines drawn in – let the jurors figure it out. He says it is unreliable. Judge will rule on later.
  3. Next issue- Nurmi brings up Prosecutorial Misconduct. Claims JM has bullied witnesses and deprived JA of a fair trial. He says it’s a cumulative issue, including the Fan Club. He refers to JM as: “The Great one.” JM says it was 1 incident out of view of jury. He says Nurmi wants to connect that with the social media. JM points out Wong saw nothing and they are just wasting the courts time, everyone except the defense who gets more money (implied). Judge rejects the motion as it didn’t affect the jury.
  4. Next issue- Nurmi claims that JM attacked LaViolette and bullied Dr. Samuels (also called Dr. Samuels ‘Mr. Samuels’ – degrading him). He plays a tape from closed proceedings where JM and Samuels go at it over the new exhibits- the Power Point, the Instrumental vs. Expressive (pre-med vs. not pre-med), the Time magazine article and the Brain pic. Things heat up when Dr. S. says: “… even a blind person can run the bases.” You can hear the attornies and Dr. Samuels arguing loudly. Nurmi asserts JM was intimidating the witness. JM states the proceedings were not in front of the jury and the judge was present at these proceedings. He also says LaViolette had a reason to be upset because of what was revealed. He points to the fact the Defense brought all this new evidence in the eve of the trial- no disclosure, a clear violation. He says the defense was arguing the loudest in the tape. There was no impact on their testimony. JM states the attempt to make the state responsible for the media (which they have no control of) is ridiculous when JA is actually ‘fanning the flames’ by being on Twitter through Donovan B. She is breaking the courts rule and discussing the case- even putting down the Prosecutor (his height). He wants her to desist. Nurmi says JM is trying to take the focus off himself by pointing the finger at the defendant. Twitter ‘doesn’t change the game.’ The Judge says: “There is a fine line between zealous advocacy and unethical conduct.” She says both were outside of the presence of the jury and no evidence was affected. There is no basis for a mistrial. She states: “The prosecutor was not in any way outside the bounds of proper behavior.” Regarding the Tweets from jail- Nurmi wants proof, a motion in writing and sites freedom of speech. JM doesn’t want to investigate this as he might be called intimidating again. The judge says it is a matter for the Sheriff.

Afternoon Session:

  1. There is a closed-door hearing being held with Alyce LaViolette. I am guessing it has to do with her approaching Samantha, Travis’ sister. Apparently after trashing Travis, Alyce went up to Sam and said something like: “It’s not personal.”  I am now getting rumors that this could also be about perjury. Also- Chris Stark tweets that: “Alyce to testify about discussing her testimony – rule break –in chamber today 1:15.” That is news to me. It is 2:25 as I write this.
  2. 3:14- The jury comes in. The Judge tells them that there is a stipulation: That when the picture of Travis that was taken in the shower at 5:29:20 (his face) JA was not holding a knife or gun. The jury is then dismissed and court recessed for the day.

Summary- 4/12 after juror questions

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Alyce LaViolette  & Jennifer Willmott

Wilmott is doing cleanup after the questions and covers the following:

  1. Though JA kicked her Mom it doesn’t mean she would grow up to be an abuser to her boyfriend.
  2. JA’s Mom was abusive to her.
  3. JA does not have a pattern of abuse.
  4. AL didn’t feel JA was manipulating her and saw no patterns of manipulation.
  5. The relationship (JA & TA) was more about battering than stalking.
  6. Both were involved in the sex. (no degradation or humiliation).
  7. JA said she was a ‘whore’ for those feelings- that the sex made TA sweet and she felt closer to him.
  8. They went back over character assassination…and the 16 page text.
  9. 12 year old girls and pics of little boys- are both about children.

10. The continuum doesn’t have room for everything.

11. JA remembers the physical abuse even though it’s not written.

12. They talk about Travis’ rants going for a long time.

13. AL didn’t know JA threatened TA about being a pedo. She says it was just a one-time threat.

14. JA wanted to go to the Bishop, TA did not.

15. TA was controlling because JA knew his secrets.

16. The stalker text also had laughing and smiley faces in it.

17. TA called Deanna crazy and kept her and JA apart.

18. There were omissions in TA’s journals- like no mention of the Havasupai trip, the rants or the name-calling.

19. AL tries not to ask leading questions.

20. She has worked with male clients.

21. JA was not the greater perp as she only acted once, in self-defense.

22. Battered women have faults too.

23. She can work with all kinds of people abusers and abused.

24. The ‘order’ to empty voice-mail not a big deal in her assessment.

25. JA didn’t fight back when being strangled as she wasn’t really sure he would kill her or she didn’t want to hurt him.

26. JA and TA did not have a ‘high conflict’ relationship.

27. TA had the pattern of abuse.

28. AL had 7 hours unedited tape of TA’s family.

29. A battered woman can snap, and over-react.

Juan Martinez is up:

  1. AL cannot recall the names of the men she testified for. (It was a long time ago)
  2. It was one time (in Criminal Court) and it involved a police officer and DV.
  3. JM proves she NEVER ACTUALLY TESTIFIED. She just wrote a report!
  4. Therefore AL lied to the Jury!
  5. AL says just because JA was manipulative as a child/teen it doesn’t mean she was as an adult.
  6. JM makes a reference to her earlier testimony (from today) and AL does not remember.
  7. JM asks ‘even if the alleged pedo incident didn’t occur it doesn’t change your opinion? AL: “Correct.”
  8. AL says JA has no pattern of lying, just after the killing.
  9. JM asks her if her opinion would change if she knew the defendant lied as part of these proceedings. AL says ‘it would depend’ and goes into ‘patterns.’

10. They argue over the quality of lies.

11. JM asks if her assessment is based on JA’s statements she says no.

12. JM points out there is no evidence of DV in the journals.

13. JM again points out she lied about representing a man.

14. In texts you can’t hear inflection-there are limitations –AL ‘I suppose.’

15. AL won’t admit that spoken is better than written word.

16. JM says her evaluation is defective because she only spoke to JA.

One more jury question:

I didn’t get this verbatim- just the gist-

  1. Asked if JA’s story same as today- AL says she didn’t hear her testify but it was consistent with what she knew.

JM is back up- Regarding the shooting in the closet- AL ‘misspoke.’

**Juror 11 has been excused due to illness.

 

 

***Update*** The Hearings coming up

2 Replies

Info from Chris Stark off of Twitter (thanks) who read the most recent mistrial filings indicates the following:

1.  Nurmi is still trying to get a mistrial for ‘Prosecutorial Misconduct.’ He will bring in the film footage of Martinez signing autographs. HLN producer Grace Wong is being brought in (it is assumed) to talk about the claim that Jean Cazares saw Martinez signing autographs for fans in front of a juror (Jean didn’t say that- she actually testified that she DIDN’T see any jurors doing that).

2. Alyce is being brought back in on either Monday or Tuesday to face charges that she approached Sam (Travis’ sister) after testifying last week. Rumors say that after tearing up Travis’ reputation she had the nerve to go up to Sam and say: “It’s not personal.” This is a huge mistake as it is against the rights of the victims family to be approached like that. Should make for an interesting start to the week.

Juror Q & A- LaViollette (4/12)

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  1. Please explain why you feel Jodi is not manipulative either before or after the killing based on the review of statements and interviews.

Based on the information that I have,  (ummm) I don’t see a pattern of manipulation the way I would define it.  (umm)I haven’t seen that in terms of her trying to… (uh) and I’m not sure exactly what this is in  reference to so it’s a hard question for me to answer but I think anybody can be manipulative. What I look for are patterns and I didn’t see them in the materials that I read in terms of her relationship with Mr. A. so   I’m not sure how else to answer that.

**OK- I will skip the ‘uhs,’ ‘ums’ etc. Just so you know her sentences don’t always make sense. I also might paraphrase or skip a tangent. I will put  ‘>>>’ when I skip tangents…and this is close to a transcript- paraphrased somewhat.

  

 

  1. On the one side, we have demeaning multiple verbal slurs, a slap, a shove, a chokehold and a lunge perpetrated on Jodi. On the other, we have a gunshot to the head, a 4” deep slit throat and close to 30 stab wounds delivered by Jodi to Travis. Is not the perpetrator of the greatest domestic violence Jodi?
    I think what happened to Mr. A. is horrific <Objection> I think that self-defense <O> Judge repeats: Is not the perpetrator of the greatest DV Jodi? (waiting…) “No.”

 

 

 

      3.  In the hypothetical given by Mr. Martinez is it possible Travis was the one who told Jodi he wanted her to leave…if that were true then isn’t it likely Travis never hit her that day?     I can only go on the materials that I’ve read, (that were available to me) and when I look at that…ya know I don’t have face to face corroboration that he hit her that day. What I have is evidence that as she began to pull away things escalated.

 

      4. When Jodi went to confront Bianca about being with Matt can’t that be seen as  she did it because she was jealous?     It could be seen that way.  (Repeat). The nature of the confrontation didn’t seem to be hostile.  From either Jodi’s report Mr’ McCartney’s …so in that way she could have been motivated by jealousy but the confrontation or the talk didn’t seem to be hostile.

 

      5. Jodi went through Travis’ emails, messages and inbox (MySpace). Did you take any of that into consideration when making your assessment?     Yes I did.

 

      6. You bought Miss Arias books, apologized upon meeting her, and ordered her a magazine subscription. Did you do anything else to establish a relationship with Jodi?     Simply talking to her and meeting with her>>>spending the hours talking in jail with her but no, nothing else.

 

      7. Have you given her anything else?    No I haven’t.    Have you ever had any physical contact with her? Hugs, friendly touching etc?     I don’t think so, I might have touched her arm…in jail there’s a screen… and that was my meetings with Jodi…other than what you see in court.

 

      8. How do you know Jodi received spider man underwear from Travis on Valentines day? Did you see them? Pictures? Or anything else? The only thing I saw was the text message…she was bringing the Spiderman underwear.

 

       9. How many men have you testified for in criminal court?    I haven’t testified much in Criminal Court>>>so 1 or 2.

 

     10. If you had been given access to everything except interviews with Jodi how would your opinion have varied, if at all?     I think that um, well, I could have come to the same conclusion because part of what I read about the interactions between JA and TA, other women and TA, the Hughes’s responses, parts of his journals, first page of MySpace, and collateral interviews.

    

     11. Would you have adjusted your belief in the level of abuse if you had been given access to everything except the interviews with Jodi?     No because given my experience (and those she works with) the level of psychological abuse and character assassination was incredibly high in this case. (Gives example).

 

     12. Other than what Jodi has told you, in what other sources did you see evidence of physical violence by Travis?      I actually didn’t see other evidences of physical violence by TA, other than what JA told me.

 

     14. Would your analysis of this relationship change if, hypothetically speaking, you found out the stories of Travis being violent and masturbating to children were made up?      I would still rely on what I knew about the psychological abuse- (she goes into her working with victims) ….they say psychological abuse is worse than physical.

 

 15. Regarding non-verbal communication, do you think that you can read through a string of text messages, emails etc between two people and know exactly what the non-verbal communication is?      No.

 

     16. How do you know tone, meaning, inside jokes etc. if you cannot get both sides of the story?       Well there would be no way for me to interview Mr. A. but I read so much of what he put together (she talks about history –written documents) …rely on the written evidence and I had a fair amount that I relied on.

 

17. You said other sources said Jodi was not manipulative, who are these sources? Mr. McCartney and Mr. Brewer (previous boyfriends) she had longer term relationships with and when she was older I didn’t read about her being manipulative to her sisters or brothers…there was this period when she was young and a teenager (teens can be manipulative) …but as an  adult I didn’t hear her described that way at all.

 

18. When interviewing Jodi you claimed you did not asking leading questions. If someone asks a simple question that elicits a simple y/n response, would you consider that a leading question?     Gosh I’ve been asked a lot of y/n questions and I think they’re questions, I don’t think they’re leading questions. … I work very hard not to do that.

 

19. You say Travis has no indication of being stalked. He displays no fearful behavior and continues his contact with Jodi of his own accord. How do you reconcile Jodi’s claim of DV if she continues her contact with Travis of her own accord…where was her fearful behavior?      Domestic Violence and stalking… tend to be different. …Battered women go back and forth…you don’t see people leave and stay gone and their fear develops over a longer time.  Stalking- fear tends to develop in a shorter time…real stalking occurs when end of the relationship. And no more contact is desired. >>>

 

20. Do you consider someone who says: “no jury will ever convict me” to be a person with low self esteem?     It sounds like a really foolish statement to me…I don’t know what to say about self esteem but it doesn’t seem like a good statement to make…

 

21. How can you say that Jodi and Travis’ relationship was abuse with no proof other than name calling on paper and Jodi’s word?       It’s the degree of name calling and putting down, the level of escalation. And the words of his 2 closest friends, his relations with other women…so it’s not just from JA’s words>>>those kind of words I don’t think anyone would want their daughter called those kind of words>>>they would see it as abusive.

 

22. Do you handle cases where the female is the abuser?      Yes I do.

 

23. Did Travis discuss abuse of Jodi or any other women in his journal entries?      No, he didn’t.

 

24. In all the evidence you reviewed, was there any indication anywhere of Travis claiming stalking by anyone else other than Jodi?      No, I don’t believe so.

 

25. Of the times you have testified in other cases, how many of these were in def. of men?  Not just criminal, I’ve also worked in family law…of the 18 times I’ve testified that I have worked 3 or 4 and defense has a broader brush… referrals I’ve had men accused of beating their wife and children  and I’ve worked with the attorney and also intervention//  (//means Mr. Martinez objected and the Judge moved on to the next question)

 

26. What is the manifesto you referred to during your testimony?      I actually don’t know because I’ve never seen it.

 

27. Is there a type of stalking… that a person is comfortable around someone in person but are afraid of them or what they are capable of when they are not around?
There’s …when you look at abuse…and battering…when moving apart and coming back together – there’s disbelief the relationship is going to end. There might even be a protective order, they might meet again for dinner- very common. Still some back and forth, that’s not stalking. Once the stalker realizes you mean business…that’s when their behavior will escalate and get worse.

 

28. When speaking of blackmail and being threatened, are you aware that Jodi threatened Travis by saying she would let out that he was a pedophile?      I was not aware of that.   Does that mean anything to you?      Yes, of course it means something to me, yes.

 

29. You stated it would be beneficial for Jodi to write things she was lying about in her journal, to buck up her story. How would she write about these things if her story didn’t change until well after the killing hypothetically speaking?       If she had planned something …on being separate from Travis, it seems like she would use, she would be building up a story that would use all this. I don’t see a plan here to separate from Travis and build a self-defense case.

 

30.   Regarding the text from Travis to Jodi where he is upset about her BS story from Michelle or Elena, what exactly was the BS story that Jodi told Travis?       The ‘B.S. story’ the woman came into the restaurant and told Jodi that Travis was with Lisa…(which was true). Where did you get this info?   ….came from the communications.  What Jodi gave me and what Lisa wrote, so it wasn’t a B.S. Story.

You stated that Travis was the one lying in this message, how do you know this for sure?      Because I read the information from Lisa…so there was corroboration. How can you know that Jodi’s B.S. story was not a lie? (Not the subject but the actual story that was told.)      I can’t I don’t know the story that was told to Travis.

 

31. You seem to believe that when the argument began between Jodi and Travis prior to the Havasupai trip that he called her upstairs that he only wanted to pursue an argument. How do you know he didn’t want to get the issue resolved and calm her and may have been embarrassed in front of the Freemans?      I don’t know that and I didn’t use heavily in my assessment.

 

32. Can you explain how Ms. Arias can remember physical abuse incidents so vividly but does not write anything, not even a reference to her feelings, in her journal?      About the incidents? (Judge re-reads) I believe, well, there were different places she wrote references to her feelings…I can’t explain what somebody does…can’t explain what they don’t write down.

 

33. You testified writings could have supported her statements however, is it possible the incidents of abuse reported by Jodi were reported after the fact as a secondary gain to benefit her?     That’s possible, that’s possible. I didn’t rely just rely on her oral or verbal report.

 

34. Do you have any evidence other than Jodi’s word that Travis made her tear out pages and write only positive thoughts?     No I didn’t.

 

35. Who, from Jodi’s past did you interview that were able to rule out Jodi’s manipulative behavior being a pattern?      I wasn’t able to interview anyone from her past directly. I was given the interviews that were done at the beginning. There were at least reviewed 20 collaterals, more collateral sources in this case than any case I’ve worked on.

 

36. You told us that you like to meet with each individual before analyzing the relationship. We have heard Jodi’s side of the story. Can you tell us Travis’ side of the story?       Well, by law I can’t interview//  Travis’ family. I obviously can’t interview Mr. A. I had 7 hours of unedited footage regarding Mr. A. that people spoke very well of him…with friends and family. Looked at some of the things he did. He was kind and generous, he made people laugh and motivated people. I didn’t feel he was a one-dimensional human being. I feel that there were very good parts of Mr. A.>>>  Mr. A had some outstanding traits.

 

37.  You mentioned that stalking could fall under the abuse and battery columns in your continuum. If that is true why is stalking excluded from those columns? Actually because when I talk about that in training I call that normal stalking – neither party believes each other>>>pull back and forth…common for someone to get a protective order and the partner believes they can keep pushing…until actually enforces the P.O. that they change their mind…they know that they mean business. Is your continuum incomplete?  Why not list all the appropriate bullet points for the appropriate column?      Yes, my continuum is incomplete. It is. I’m messing with it all the time. (Goes on …dead sea scroll…framework…)

 

38. You stated that you have chosen not to take cases in the past because you did not believe an individual. Did you take this case, in part, because you believed Jodi?   Yes.     If you did not believe her would you have chosen to turn it down?      Yes.

If you start out believing in an individual doesn’t that, by default, set up  prejudices towards their partner?          No, because I’ve had cases where as I’ve pursued them I’ve found them not credible and I’ve talked to the attornies  …if I don’t find enough credible evidence I don’t testify>>>I don’t have a great retirement after 34 years //

 

 

39. You stated that regarding anger, it is more common for someone to have a burst of anger, then calm down. Is it possible that Travis’ rants seem longer because they are being viewed in text form?      Actually they go on over a period of 2-3 hours which is pretty long and then follow up with the other//  There were long rants, the longest to me was 2-3 hours- I Think it was the 5/26th, date not as important as the context, there was a follow-up>>> this went on for another, I think for 16 pages or something like that…it’s an extensive length of time.

 

40. Can you explain what you mean by a burst of anger? Can a 10 or 20 minute rant be described as a burst?      A 10-20 minute  could be described as a burst. What you look at (gives example of a case) is what’s in that burst.

 

41. If a couple has an argument that takes all day to end can they still be in a healthy relationship?      Yes, absolutely.   Would that type of argument indicate abuse?      It wouldn’t indicate abuse at all.

   

42.  Is it possible for 2 people to be abusive to each other?     Yes.

 

43. Don’t you believe that Travis making comments about a 12 year old girl while having a phone sex conversation with Jodi is fundamentally different than Travis allegedly masturbating to photos of young boys?      I think it’s different it’s just an unusual comment to make from a 30 year old man about a 12 year old girl.

 

44. Would you characterize your knowledge of June 4, 2008, as light or incomplete? I think some of the details of where something happened  I’m clearer on it now but I knew in general what happened. I was focused on what led up to June 4th and what happened June 4th.

 

45. Are you confused on any of the details of that afternoon?     Well I was, I said that  I believed that the shot was fired in the closet and it wasn’t. I think I know most of he detail.            some of the dates where something happened..I was focused on what led up to June 4th and what happened June 4th.

 

46. Do you think it is deceptive for someone to not share the most private and intimate details of their lives, like their sexual activities, with their friends and family or do you consider it normal to keep those things private?   I think most people keep the details of their sexual lives private.    If normal, why do you think Travis’ attempts to keep those things private is deceptive?      I don’t think him keeping his private life, his sexual life is deceptive. I think putting himself out as someone who obeys the Laws of Chastity and is a 30 year old virgin is deceptive.

 

47. Did you ever see evidence that Jodi was openly sharing all of her most private sexual details with her friends and family? No, I didn’t. Would you consider that deceptive? No, I don’t. She never claimed to be a virgin. Certainly she was part of the Mormon faith and not going along with the Laws of Chastity.

 

48. You say Jodi’s lies started after she killed Travis, how could you possibly know this?      I can only go on the reports of people in her life prior to that, once again primarily the 2 men that she spent most of her adult life with when in her 20’s  (Matt & Derryl) neither described her as a liar.

 

49. Do you believe that Jodi was subjected to sexual degradation at the hands of Travis?      I believe she participated in the relationship, went along with things >> wanted to be in that relationship and went further than she should.

 

50. You stated that you saw no signs of Travis being sexually degraded by Jodi. Noting his desire to see her in Ca., his actions on the sex call and various texts, i-m’s etc. Couldn’t that same argument be made regarding Jodi’s alleged sexual degradation given her desire to see Travis, her actions on the sex call, etc?     Yes, I’ve not heard Jodi say she was sexually degraded and humiliated…not heard her testimony…hasn’t made claims of that.

 

51. Considering only the written conversations and journals (excluding the interview with Jodi) did you see abuse?   Please explain.       I’m confused by that – I’m thinking it’s about  Jodi’s journals and 2 interviews, if I excluded  those things,  I would still see that as abuse.     What level would you place that abuse?    The   verbal abuse was in battering>>>  Definitely battery.

 

52. Considering only the journals, did you see an escalation?      Oh, yeah, I saw an escalation over time the rants longer, put-downs are worse. Him talking about his own anger being scary.

 

53.   You mentioned Travis was in a 7-year relationship with Deanna. Are you aware of anyone interviewing her to determine if she was a victim or survivor?      I don’t know of any interview with Deanna.   I didn’t see anything that indicated that she was a survivor of abuse.       Did you interview her?     No, I did not.

 

54. You keep saying that Jodi doesn’t match your definition of manipulative. Is it possible that your definition of manipulation differs from others?      Yes, yes it is. Is it possible that your definition is wrong?      Sure.

 

55. Yesterday you mentioned Jodi’s behavior towards her mother. Do you honestly believe that hitting and kicking your parents are normal behavior at any age?        No, I don’t believe I said it was normal teenage behavior. I said it was not appropriate teenage behavior. But it is behavior teenagers do. I don’t think it’s good behavior.

The summary for after these questions will follow.