I was going to try to cull this info from the ‘Websleuths’ site but another site not only beat me to it, she also included other sources and their information on the jurors. Thank you Tamara Tattles! A fantastic summarization of the brave souls taking on this case. I wanted to share the link with my readers so here you go:
This is not a transcript, I have paraphrased.
- The jurors get a copy of the instructions. These will be returned and shredded at the end.2. Apply the facts. These are rules you should use. Get what actually happened from evidence in court. Verdict should not be based on sympathy or prejudice. Consider all instructions.
- The openings and closings are not evidence.
- A stipulation can be accepted/rejected.
- Disregard sustained/stricken testimony.
- The state has the burden beyond a reasonable doubt. Beyond a reasonable doubt-firmly convinced. There are few things we know with absolute certainty. If convinced of guilty find her guilty. If benefit of doubt find not guilty.
- Ignore statements of law enforcement if coerced.
- Don’t consider the punishment.
- Defense doesn’t have to provide any evidence.
- You can believe all/part or none of testimony based on what’s seen, heard, memory and quality of memory. Consider manner, motive and bias.
10. Use common sense and experience.
11. Evidence can be direct or circumstantial.
12. Expert should be judged like other witnesses.
13. Evidence of other acts are present. To establish motive plan, not character.
14. Witness if police same as any other witness.
15. Defendant’s testimony same as any other witness.
16. Don’t need motive.
17. 1st Degree:
– Defendant caused the death.
– Defendant intended/knew would kill another human being, reflected on that thought before killing. Reflection time may be short.
18. 2nd Degree:
– If cannot agree on 1st.
– Proof of intentional death.
– Intentionally knew would injure /result in death.
– Extreme indifference to human life- reckless.
– Doesn’t require pre-meditation.
– If you have a reasonable doubt about 1st vs. 2nd degree.
19. Sudden quarrel/Heat of passion
– Adequate provocation.
– Words aren’t adequate.
– There must be no cooling off period.
– Sudden quarrel-provoked.
Must find guilty of Manslaughter.
20. 1st Degree-felony murder
– Committed burglary.
– Caused death in course of burglary/ or in flight.
– Intentionally did something to culminate if the offense.
– Entered unlawfully.
– Did so to commit felony.
– Objective to engage in that conduct.
– Not necessary to be unanimous in both 1st –Pre-med and 1st –felony. If not the jurors must write the numbers on the verdict form.
21. Justified/Self Defense
– A reasonable person would believe deadly force necessary.
– Defendant use no more force than necessary to a reasonable person.
– Only to protect against deadly physical force.
– When the danger ends you stop.
– Justified if reasonable person would believe they would have been dead.
– Legal right to be there.
– Not engaged in unlawful act.
– State has burden defendant didn’t act with justification.
– Consider-type of relationship, length, frequency (contact), and length of time.
Jury Questions (paraphrased)
1. How do you feel events such as incarceration…can affect the tests?” MMPI- increase paranoia, depression, anxiety. No effect on MMCI (long term traits).
2. Could an individual score differently after a traumatic experience like killing someone than before? Depends on tests. Trauma inventories- yes, definitely. Personality tests- yes, can be impacted…depression.
3. Discuss high/low scales on validity page of the MMPI. (He goes through and most are normal). Exaggerating is elevated- distress/cry for help.
4. OK for old version of test / old version of DSM? DSM gives criteria for diagnosis. Like a guide. Not good to use outdated one.
5. Changes between TSI 1 and TSI 2? 26 new or rewritten questions, 6 rewritten or taken out.
6. PDS valid if lying about the event? If lied…yes that’s important. If this didn’t do it and it’s made up then where did it come from? Why occurring? Showing PTSD? Evaluator needs to find out.
7. Lack of hemorrhage (blood) = lack of injury to the brain? I assume gun shot is after death…depends on how far after…maybe not as much.
8. A gun shot at a short distance wouldn’t drop a person? Depends on caliber. Even shot gun didn’t incapacitate…usually if through the side it will.
9. If you get no compensation for this case…any organizations you are involved in? Yes, the Institute will bill for services. 70-80 hours so far, $85-250 an hour, total $13,000 – $14,000. A small part of our budget.
10. Regarding lying on the tests? Validity tests detect these people.
11. Possible to manipulate the four tests? I could probably…you can go on the internet for the MMPI, tell how to fake it. Not possible with a battery of tests.
12. If Dr. Demarte had additional evidence to support BPD would you see it in her report? Yes. Did she include this? A little bit…most were from after meeting Travis. Has to have a pattern over years.
13. Criminal act (?) cause anxiety? If close by. Considering years in jail? I didn’t evaluate her- not my role. (Not sure I got these right).
14. Did you know you were evaluating Jodi Arias. I knew they were (the tests) Jodi’s.
15. Had you heard of the case? No. I was basically given the tests. I didn’t know the details.
16. Can bullets travel (again I missed part)? Yes, if it hits something it can.
17.If there is…(I missed) answer: I could not.
18. Something about the summary scales…? I was informed by the defense that she did not know they existed. Not using it is one thing, not knowing about it is another. Also using it to diagnose BPD…there’s entire books written on the MMPI…
Follow up, JW:
- DSM tr didn’t have different criteria for PTSD.
- PDS still had a trauma it matters but doesn’t make it invalid.
- TSI tests were similar over years.
- If she had/has BPD how do you explain all the trauma?
- Bullets aren’t his specialty but it would have had to go through sinuses and deflect through motor strips. Also the membrane is intact.
JM is up:
- He goes through and asserts that her pattern of consistency in tests is LYING! They argue over whether ‘exaggerate’ means ‘lie’. JM says so if the prosecutor says he’s 6 feet tall…Dr: “It’s likely both.” They argue some more.
- PDS test is based on a lie. Does it call into question the validity of the test? “Correct.”
- MMPI info- says valid, but maybe exaggerated?
- The different DSM books come out around every 10 years. Dr. Demarte gave the TSI 1 when the TSI 2 had been out for 6 months.
- He didn’t know Dr. Samuels indicated to look at a possible personality disorder.
- They argue over what he had said about Dr, Demarte being unqualified. It was partly due to what the defense lawyers told him.
- He is getting his salary for today as well as the Institute getting paid.
- He no longer treats patients. He consults. JM implies he testifies mostly and he denies it.
- The Dr. has only worked with 2 projectiles in the head. JM points out that is less in terms of experience to the one who conducts autopsies. He agrees.
JM calls Dr Horn, the ME back up:
- Autopsy photos back. Not a lot of blood in skull=bled out/deceased. He draws the path of the bullet (a direct line). The brain was too decomposed to find the trajectory. If last wound it did nothing, if 1st then he would have collapsed within 1-2 seconds.
- JW on cross: It would take seconds for blood to drain from the system. Though the brain was like pudding he could still get slices. There was no wound track. He is not familiar with research about people with frontal lobe injuries being ok. Never in his experience.
- Juror Question (HLN cut off the beginning- I got something like Are they deceased when you do the autopsy? “I hope so.”
- JM –Gun shot immediately incapacitating? ‘If he was alive.” And if dead that would explain the lack of blood.
- JW-This is your opinion? Yes- my training and experience.
- Jury question about the intact membrane—he looks at his report and says it was a typo.
- JM re: the perforation- he says there would have had to have been as it sits right where the bone was tore apart.
- JW – You reviewed your report- Yes. You know this case is serious? Yes. You made a mistake? Yes.
- JM brings in Dr. Jill Hayes she does mostly forensics psychology. Bachelors in 1990 from Armstrong State College. Augusta State=Masters 1992. Took a year off study- worked in testing. Then Louisiana State U. 1998=PhD. Was on faculty at LSU-asst. Prof. Licensed 1999. Became Associate Prof- was with for 8 years. See patients, research, admin…Katrina hit- LSU under water so came to Az. Now mostly forensic, still sees some people and police officers. Testified 75 times, 50/50 defense /prosecution.
10. She is familiar with the TSI test. It requires a trauma. She has not reviewed the PDS test in this case. Question #14 –the trauma. If it is a lie –that would give you concern. If the premise behind it is a lie it calls into question everything else. If symptoms are based on a lie how valid? Of course the test would be invalid. If you know something is a lie how do you know what is the truth.
11. Floating profile- almost 8 in elevated range. Who coined it- a person named ‘Strong’ and it meant that they are experiencing arousal, overwhelmed and applied to BPD. JM shows her JA’s profile. An outdated term… a little, but still researched and used. JM: Dr. Gatchell said it is no longer valid…Dr. Hayes: With all due respect I would disagree…he has done more research and changed the name for his purpose with spinal patients. It still was associated with BPD patients.
12. TSI –Measures trauma. Are you incompetent if you use the TSI 1 after TSI 2 available? No…some wait for additional research to see if the new test works. The peer reviewed literature doesn’t suggest that either…there is no standard. Includes summary scales – it can. Requires summary scales. The hand scoring = there is no spot for summary scores. I contacted the publisher and asked…and it wasn’t a requirement. You can just look at the 10 scales.
13. MMPI-Use for BPD? It’s helpful but need other pieces of the puzzle. You can’t just look at a few tests and come up with a diagnosis, you need to evaluate, interview…JM- Would you need to give any test before you gave this one? <Objection> To determine level of reading ability? You have to insure they can understand it. In this case WRAT 4. In this case was it to get more money? In this case it would only take 5 minutes.
14. JW-Can’t you just give them something to read? No- you won’t have any normed opinion- JA was at 12th grade level. If she had read through thousands of pages of Journal and texts and she can read/write, and IQ of 112…isn’t that enough to say she can read at a 5th grade level. “Well it’s 6th-8th grade level…if she had not done that she would have been criticized for not doing it. She only did reading recognition. I would have done it.” MMPI not used to diagnose. For personality and psychopathology. MCMI normed against known psych. disorders. More research done with regard to personality disorders actually on the MMPI. I would give both. If just one I would choose the MMPI as it’s better researched. MCMI is great for helping determine characteristics but MMPI is research based as well. Scoring and summaries on the TSI. Best to use updated tests? You will know it’s coming out. Dr. H: Generally the research before is done by the people who own the test so they have a lot to gain. Also a wealth of research on the old test. Because she didn’t have it is that a good reason? It sounds crass but these tests can get costly. JW- You had to call somebody to check if summary scales were required? On this case- yes. JW: There are instructions on how to score summary scales? Dr: Not on the hand-scored test.
15. JW- Floating Profiles and Dr. Gatchell. ‘Formerly known as the floating profile’ because he works with pain management. It’s called a ‘disability profile’ with his patients. Many had BPD also. Didn’t review the PDS. JW-If lied about how the trauma occurred but there was still a trauma. Dr: If they only lied that once how do you know if they’re telling the truth? If trauma was a bear/no tiger- does that invalidate the rest of the test. Dr: I would be very concerned. When this is self-report and the initial event was a lie then how do you know the symptoms stemming from that are true? The symptoms could still be there whether tiger or bear…with proof. Need to also look for more evidence.
16. If your not sure about the PDS test and PTSD can you give other tests? ‘Definitely.’ You can’t then ignore the tests given.
17. She has done 4 Death Penalty cases in last 4 years or so. For prosecution in all those.
18. License in 1999- so four years. She has had previous experience, pratice means you have a license…I wouldn’t.
19. JM back up. Tiger vs. Bear…Gopher? Difficult to continue? Yes if no physical symptoms confirms they lie. If event didn’t occur how it was stated then symptoms may not be true.
20. Floating profiles- out the window? No, author is clear- he never said don’t use Floating…State rests.
Court resumes tomorrow at 9.
- The hearings this morning were closed. The defense has made motions to keep out several prosecution witnesses. My previous post (on mixedbagblog.wordpress.com) has this info.
- The judge goes over the schedule: Tomorrow starts at 9:30 and goes for ‘a little while.’ The next court day will be Wednesday, May 1 starting at 9 and going ‘until we finish.’ Final jury instructions will be Thursday, May 2 and closing arguments will be Thursday and Friday. The case will then go to the jury. (Arizona juries do not deliberate over the weekend.)
- JM starts by playing the DVD where JA is in Travis’ lap. This time it’s the longer version- you can see her sit up. There is no sound.
- Robert Brown- Mesa Computer Forensics detective. There are 3 photos of JA with dark brown hair shown from her helio phone dated June 3, 2008. JM also shows a previous picture with her blonde hair- I saw no date. The Walmart receipt was after these photos. Nurmi questions the time of the photos- Brown says the phone records where it is taken at the time taken.
- Det. Flores is up. He brings in many photos of Travis’s shelving from the closet (where the gun supposedly was). He set these up in March 2013. The shelf is 7 feet tall. He proves the shelves were ‘floating’ on 4 pins. One exhibit (which the live feed didn’t show) describes his hand pushing the shelf down. JM asks if there was any nudity in the “Harder Faster Stronger” video- Flores says: “No.” Nurmi asks if he measured every shelf. (He didn’t – he actually says: “There was no need” and Nurmi says: “Did I ask you if there was a need?”) He asks Flores about JA’s high IQ (?) then he says over and over while pointing out different shelves- ‘JA didn’t say the gun was here?’ Flores: “No.”
- Nurmi asks Flores if the Hughes said Travis was ‘addicted to Jodi’ –JM objects. (Sustained). Nurmi asks if Flores said in his interview with 48hrs that ‘something provoked Ms. Arias at the end’ –JM objects and there is a recess. Nurmi asks if he investigated how the shelf would react to weight as it is resting on dividers- Flores: “No, I did not.”
Jury Questions and Answers: (paraphrased)
1. Any record of a gun owned by Travis? No.
2. Any significance to measuring every shelf? No.
3. Any shoes out of place when you arrived on the scene? Nothing appeared out of place.
4. Did Travis’ roommates ever own a gun? No, they did not.
5. What’s the width of the end shelf unit where the gun was? Shelves were 36-38” long, 16” deep and ¾” wide.
6. Jodi said she helped Travis put things in the attic- did you find anything? No.
7. Was the attic capable of storing boxes? There are just beams…maybe if light.
8. Can you tell was anything ever stored in the attic? No.
9. Where’s the entrance to the attic? Closet.
10. Jodi’s weight, height, shoe size? Don’t know shoe, height 5’5”-5’6”, weight 115-120.
11. Are the pins round the entire length? Yes.
12. Were there any signs of a gun at Travis’ house? None whatsoever.
13. Any empty boxes/containers in Travis’ closet for gun? No.
14. If JA stood with arms straight up did you measure how tall to her fingertips? No I did not.
No follow up by Martinez.
Nurmi goes over:
- Arizona doesn’t require guns to be registered.
- Shelves free float and go back in place.
- The attic has more than just the entrance in Travis’ closet.
- He asks Flores if someone told him there was nothing stored in the attic. Flores- ‘yes.’ Nurmi then says something like: ‘you know because someone told you…just like Dr. Horn.’ (He is referencing that Flores misunderstood the Dr. when he said that the gunshot was last).
- JA’s grandma, the one she was living with at the time of the killing is in court today.
Court is in recess until tomorrow at 9:30.
Hearing Motions (no jury present)
- Grace Wong from In Session takes the stand. She is asked about whether she recognizes the faces of the jurors – she does. They show the story with JM taking pics and signing one autograph. She did not see any jurors present.
- Next up is Bryan Neumeister- a video/audio expert. Nurmi goes through his credentials. They bring up the picture of Travis’ face in the shower. He has enlarged it so that he claims he can see JA standing with both hands on the camera a few feet away (and no knife). The picture has lines drawn in by Neumeister to make the image clearer. He says it looks better in his lab. JM says he sees a dog and the picture is subjective. Nurmi claims it proves JA was telling the truth. JM doesn’t want the pic with the lines drawn in – let the jurors figure it out. He says it is unreliable. Judge will rule on later.
- Next issue- Nurmi brings up Prosecutorial Misconduct. Claims JM has bullied witnesses and deprived JA of a fair trial. He says it’s a cumulative issue, including the Fan Club. He refers to JM as: “The Great one.” JM says it was 1 incident out of view of jury. He says Nurmi wants to connect that with the social media. JM points out Wong saw nothing and they are just wasting the courts time, everyone except the defense who gets more money (implied). Judge rejects the motion as it didn’t affect the jury.
- Next issue- Nurmi claims that JM attacked LaViolette and bullied Dr. Samuels (also called Dr. Samuels ‘Mr. Samuels’ – degrading him). He plays a tape from closed proceedings where JM and Samuels go at it over the new exhibits- the Power Point, the Instrumental vs. Expressive (pre-med vs. not pre-med), the Time magazine article and the Brain pic. Things heat up when Dr. S. says: “… even a blind person can run the bases.” You can hear the attornies and Dr. Samuels arguing loudly. Nurmi asserts JM was intimidating the witness. JM states the proceedings were not in front of the jury and the judge was present at these proceedings. He also says LaViolette had a reason to be upset because of what was revealed. He points to the fact the Defense brought all this new evidence in the eve of the trial- no disclosure, a clear violation. He says the defense was arguing the loudest in the tape. There was no impact on their testimony. JM states the attempt to make the state responsible for the media (which they have no control of) is ridiculous when JA is actually ‘fanning the flames’ by being on Twitter through Donovan B. She is breaking the courts rule and discussing the case- even putting down the Prosecutor (his height). He wants her to desist. Nurmi says JM is trying to take the focus off himself by pointing the finger at the defendant. Twitter ‘doesn’t change the game.’ The Judge says: “There is a fine line between zealous advocacy and unethical conduct.” She says both were outside of the presence of the jury and no evidence was affected. There is no basis for a mistrial. She states: “The prosecutor was not in any way outside the bounds of proper behavior.” Regarding the Tweets from jail- Nurmi wants proof, a motion in writing and sites freedom of speech. JM doesn’t want to investigate this as he might be called intimidating again. The judge says it is a matter for the Sheriff.
- There is a closed-door hearing being held with Alyce LaViolette. I am guessing it has to do with her approaching Samantha, Travis’ sister. Apparently after trashing Travis, Alyce went up to Sam and said something like: “It’s not personal.” I am now getting rumors that this could also be about perjury. Also- Chris Stark tweets that: “Alyce to testify about discussing her testimony – rule break –in chamber today 1:15.” That is news to me. It is 2:25 as I write this.
- 3:14- The jury comes in. The Judge tells them that there is a stipulation: That when the picture of Travis that was taken in the shower at 5:29:20 (his face) JA was not holding a knife or gun. The jury is then dismissed and court recessed for the day.
I got most of it…
Jury Questions and answers (paraphrased)
1. Are you only allowed to testify about a client’s situation with their consent? They sign an agreement- the client knows about testifying.
2. Can both Fight and Flight occur at the same time? Usually first is to flee, but both in this situation.
3. Can memories blocked in a FF event return over time? Not if there is no stored memory to begin with.
4. How can we be sure …not based on lies…? Tests and 35 years experience with PTSD patients.
5. Did you use hypnosis on #JodiArias to recover her memory? Not to my knowledge.
6. Is it possible the memories do exist during the FF state? (I missed this).
7. Could you not extract some old lost memories with photos and journals? Not first hand memory- and can cause false memories.
8. Is there 100% consensus in your field about the diagnosis? Never 100%…
9. Acute stress is determined within 2 months but you didn’t see her until 6 months after the event..how could you diagnose Acute Stress? She had PTSD at the time (and that’s not a “get out of jail free card”, but it’s connected to PTSD.
10. On what dates did JA take the tests? 12/2009 & 1/2010.
11. Can you be sure Jodi is not lying to you about the events on June 4, 2008? Not 100%..her 2nd story was truthful.
12. Why did you not try hypnosis? …Stress reaction…I’m better trained in PTSD.
13. Regarding June 4, 2008, do you feel JA had suppressed memories or are they missing entirely? I can’t measure that but based on acute stress and memory ..highly unlikely.
14. If suppressed—hypnosis- if not why? Dis-associative Amnesia has no memories to bring back.
15. As a professional what steps do you take to assure yourself that someone has truly lost or suppressed their memory as opposed to lying about the event? No way to be 100% sure it’s dis-associative amnesia..but in all reasonable probability…30% of people convicted of crimes claim amnesia.
16. Do you feel it is possible for an individual to fool professionals that someone is suffering from PTSD or Dissociative Amnesia? After a thorough evaluation…reviewing crime scene photos, re-interviews, ..feeling she was truthfull…and testing. I’m pretty confident.. acute stress and D. A. Amnesia.
17. To your knowledge was JA tested more than once on any given test? (I missed)
18. When you meet with someone can you tell if they’re telling the truth? You need corroborating info.
19. You stated she never said a negative thing in her journal yet she made negative statements about suicide and Travis making her sick… Do you consider those positive statements? They’re mild compared to the rest of the Journal.
20. Are there other disorders in the DSM-IV book that list similar symptoms? Some overlap with Acute Stress.
21. Is there any science to explain why some people can recall events and others cannot when involved in a stressful moment? Not everyone reacts to stress the same way.
22. How do you ask your questions when interviewing an individual? Do you ask leading questions? There are times you ask directed questions..but mostly just let them speak.
23. You previously said 3-8 out of 1000,000 then later said 3-8%?? It’s 3-8 cases a year.
24. TGA (Trans-Global Amnesia)- from sex, water…how about from a bad haircut? No…
25. Is JA taking medication to treat this terrible PTSD? Tranquilizers, Anti-Depressants…depends on symptoms….I am not involved in treatment.
26. Regarding articles- decision making process breaks down- then how did she get so much done? Acute Stress..you can see a weapon, but not plan.
27. Did you diagnose any conditions not covered in testimony? Anxiety…Personality Disorder- not specific.
28. Are your opinions based what a patient tells you? Not solely-interviews, crime scene, reports.
29. In extreme shock..can brain still function to make rational decisions? Yes, but not always rational…in this case a camera..<Objection>
30. Intrusive thoughts- what are actors? I was referring to the story changed – 2 people one set of actors the Travis attacking- second set.
31. Regarding the tremors, how can you tell it’s caused by PTSD rather than fear of herself being found guilty?There are other physiological changes- sweaty hands, shaking.
32. Did you see JA shaking before she ever mentioned it to you?
Is there a diagnosis for selective amnesia? Not initially- I was behind a partition and couldn’t see her hands.
33. Actors..when the hypocampthus (sp) ..are you on autopilot? Yes, not rational, disorganized, poorly planned…
34. Can actors be the opposite- brain choose? Not when overwhelmed- on Auto.
35. When in the process of killing someone – fight/flight vs. premeditated…in a crime scene? <O> Yes or No? possibly adrenaline would increase possible- yes, probable-no. If not- why? People are different.
36. Is there a diagnosis for selective amnesia? No.
37. Would you continue to help a person who’s been lying..for 2 years? No.
38. Why didn’t you re-administer the test once JA admitted to killing Travis? I reviewed it and the score would not have changed- only the stressor changed.
39. It seems 25-30 hours is inadequate to diagnose someone who killed another person. Wouldn’t you agree? No – typically takes 6-7-10-12 hours. Beyond 20-30 the nature of the relationship tends to change.
40. Wouldn’t adrenaline output increase in someone who was committing premeditated murder. (?)
41. Is the MMPI test utilized for anything other than therapy like job requirements? That’s very controversial…I think violates right of privacy.
42. Regarding JA’s diagnosis for PTSD when did you catch the errors in your report? Nov/Dec – so I corrected.
43. Do you feel those were big errors? They were little errors…typos.
44. You said on re-direct that JA remembers before the attack and after? Therefore she would remember cleaning up, deleting details and putting the gun in the car? Correct? No details of the trauma.
45. Can the acute stress occur if someone plans to kill vs defending themselves when in danger? A planned homicide-<O> possible, not probable.
46. Do you often make mistakes in your reports when you do evaluations? No.
47. Where was she when coming out of fog? Check Point at Hoover Dam.
48. You have issues with omitting/forgetting info..do you feel you need an accurate report for a trial? Yes.
49. Why didn’t you complete a new PDS when JA changed her story? PTSD answers …test results would not change.
50. Do you consider yourself impartial third party? Yes.
51. Do you always develop such a fond relationship with those you evaluate? I wouldn’t define it as fond…impartial.
52. Do you still think it was appropriate to purchase a gift for JA? Not unethical…I’m compassionate.
53. Regarding the D2 criteria- was this the phone call from her Mom? Not about one phone call, she was frequently angry with her Mom.
54. Would anyone with trouble with parents over the phone meet that criteria? Her Mom became her target.
55. Do you think that someone that was able to confront their boyfriends about cheating displayed assertive behavior? She was assertive at the moment, but not assertive with Travis.
56. Do meds cause any of the various amnesias you described? Yes.
57. Since you didn’t meet with Jodi until Dec 2009, isn’t it fair to say you are not 100% sure she suffered from Acute Stress? That’s correct.
58. Under cross examination you admitted Jodi having Anal was relevant…then later stated it wasn’t. How do you account for this inconsistency? Anal with two other botfriends is not relevant, but the amount with Travis is.
59. Does it raise a red flag when a patient changes their story? yes- it always raises a red flag. The first story was a psychological reaction in an attempt not to deal with it. I first considered a multiple personality disorder.
60. Sending a self help book seems like it would help the success of therapy but not an evaluation, would you concur? I remembered that book…can help with self-esteem and dealing with reality.
61. You said on redirect that if someone is making up a story, their story tends to be consistent. Is that correct? A made up story- yes, from a script- like the one in her (48 hrs) interview.
62. If so, if JA is making up a story currently, wouldn’t it make sense that her story is consistent? Her story now is consistent but with added details each time.
63. Who conducted the interviews with JA’s family/friends? Defense attorney.
64. Validity scores on the PDS – are JA’s scores out of the normal range? No.
65. What are your code of ethics/guidelines if someone appears suicidal or a danger to themselves? Inform the closest people but she had no suicide plan and by the time I got to her she was not suicidal.
66. Regarding Jodi being tied up with hands and feet…was this the day of the killing? June 4? Yes.
67. Why do you believe JA’s self esteem was very low when she was with Travis? From her Journal and what she put up with- going back to him after abuse.
68. In your years of experience, wouldn’t you say low self-esteem is normal in the general population? It’s not normal, it’s reasonably common…it limits a person’s ability to make a mark in this world, so I would not call it normal.
69. How do Jodi’s test results go toward her diagnosis of PTSD if she was still telling the intruder story at the time of the test? My diagnosis of PTSD was based upon the fact that she met the criteria listed in the DSM . The tests …confirmed my selection. But the diagnosis could have been made without the tests.
70. Within the norm population used for a given test, if a segment of those individuals were to lie, could that cause a loop-hole, for lack of a better term in that test that could possibly allow a client taking that test to lie without detection? If the validity scales on the tests were created with a group of people who lie regularly it would certainly skew the results. The PDS test does not have a validity scale built into it. The MCMI does. But that is based upon thousands of individuals taking the test and what is known about those individuals…the built in scales are a pretty good determiner of …lying on that test.
71. Is there an assumption that those in the norm population are answering truthfully? Yes.
72. Isn’t it possible that a hypothesis formulated early on could skew results when the tests are evaluated by the same individual that formed that hypothesis? If the individual wasn’t a trained psych…it’s possible, but..the MCMI test was scored by a computer. (He says he prefers computerized scoring). Serves as a second opinion. He hand scored the PDS and pointed out Jodi put in the numbers- he adds them up.
73. Could that hypothesis affect or color how the evaluator reads or interprets tests, answers in interviews, interprets crime scenes, etc.? A hypothesis..is constantly changing based upon additional information. (Talks about therapy). In evaluating you may have an initial hypothesis which may guide you to the tests to take. A professional has to be willing to change their hypothesis.
74. Based on the Dissociate Amnesia article, would you agree that 3 – 8 people out of 100,000 people studied is a very minute number? Actually refers to TG Amnesia article. <O>
75. Regarding the fight/flight response by Jodi on June 4, was there ever any discussion between you and Jodi regarding her response and why she did not flee from the bedroom? She told me she did try to flee, and at some point she needed to protect herself…
76. Is it your normal practice to fill out the answers on the questionnaire for those you are evaluating? Sometimes I may do that and sometimes not. In this…case I filled it out.
77. Do you have any concerns with errors or incorrect answers? No, my work was checked several times.
78. If a patient you saw consistently lied and kept to that story, then answered a test or series of questions based off of the story the client believed, how could that test reveal they are lying, especially if that person remained consistent within that series of lies? If talking about PDS test that result is not based upon the actual nature of the trauma…it’s somewhat irrelevant as to the exact nature of the stress…
79. You stated that Jodi answered number 13 on the PTSD test the way she did because of repeated physical and emotional abuse by Travis and she explained this to you in your session after she took the test. When she took the PDS test, wasn’t she still telling the intruder story and had not told her story about Travis’s abuses yet? Yes/No she told me about the abuses early on but not the actual incident of the killing.
80. Are questions numbers 16-21 on the PDS test based on the event listed in question #14 in the timeframe in question #15, which would be the intruder story, from 6 months to 3 years ago? Yes that’s true.
81. If yes, this event never happened so those answers (#’s 16-21) are based on a fictitious story. Is that correct? That is correct.
82. Are these questions (#’s 16-21) part of the overall score to determine whether Jodi has PTSD or not?
83. Do you feel comfortable with diagnosing a person with a condition if they continually lie to you hypothetically speaking?
84. Regarding question number 29 on the PDS test, not being able to remember an important part of the traumatic event, Jodi scored this a 1 – indicating this doesn’t bother her often. Consider that she killed Travis and claims significant memory loss during the event, doesn’t it seem inconsistent this wouldn’t bother her significantly?
85. Given that the Time article mentioned that homicide suspects have reported memory loss, is it possible that a person can plan and carry out a murder and still suffer memory loss, ASD, or PTSD?
86. Even if intentional, isn’t it possible the event would still be considered stressful?
87. If Jodi was in fight or flight mode when she ran out of the bathroom, why would she run out of the closet and corner herself? She said she did try to flee but then had to fight.
88. Wouldn’t someone in fight or flight mode want to get away from the danger? (yes)
89. Would they want to get help from someone? no one there to call to…
90. Are you able to state that Ms. Arias had either PTSD or ASD before the incident on June 4 2008?
91. Would someone who plans to kill another and does be less likely to suffer acute stress than someone who kills an individual accidentally?
92. Is it possible that Jodi didn’t write negative things about Travis because there was nothing negative to write?
93. If one has suppressed feelings repeatedly would it be a natural reaction once the dam breaks, for example a gun shot that hits Travis, for all this repressed feelings to express themselves and carrying that violence to the extreme overall of stab wounds?
94. If something is premeditated is amnesia more or less likely to occur? (I think this was objected to, or he may have said less).
95. If Jodi had no control of her mind then how do you explain her dragging Travis’ body and trying to clean up the crime scene? (I believe he mentioned adrenaline).
96. Earlier you said you didn’t re-test because it was an oversight, today you said the score wouldn’t have changed. Which is it? (score would not change).
97. How can you be sure that JA did things to please Travis when you didn’t have a chance to speak to him? (Journals, going back to him).
98. How do you know she didn’t kill Travis out of jealousy?
99. Is it possible that a person can plan and carry out a murder and still suffer memory loss, acute stress disorder or post traumatic stress disorder?
100. Wouldn’t someone in fight or flight mode want to get away from the danger?
101. Regarding the fight/flight response by JA on June 4, was there ever any discussion between you and JA regarding her response and why she did not flee from the bedroom?
102. Do you feel comfortable with diagnosing a person with a condition if they continually lie to you, hypothetically speaking?
103. Can an initial hypothesis affect a later diagnosis? As professionals it should be flexible..
104. Is it your normal practice to fill out the answers on the questionnaire for the patient? Sometimes, I do.
105. Did she have Acute Stress Disorder or PTSD, BEFORE she killed Travis? I don’t know but most of her symptoms happened after the killing.
106. Did JA ever talk about her symptoms appearing before June 4 2008? I don’t know but most of her symptoms happened after the killing.