*This is not an exact transcript, I got as much as I could.
- Did you read entries from before Travis’s and Jodi’s relationship?
No, I didn’t…I had limited information from 2006-2008.
2. If you read earlier entries, would it have given you a better picture of Jodi Arias?
I read a lot of info from her family and boyfriends prior to that so I got a pretty good picture of JA. I saw the 7 hours from 48hrs but other than that-one e-mail from the sister.
3. What did you learn about Travis? I learned from reading what he wrote in a book and some of his blog. He was a motivational speaker, good at knowing his scriptures, from as abusive childhood, survival as a child was tough, he was made fun of (for not bathing) he had verbal and physical abuse and was neglected, attractive to women, the Hughes (friends for 5 years) were concerned about how he treated women, his anger from his own words and how he talked to women in private.
4. Do you think Jodi Arias could have lied to you to help her case? When I first met Ms. A she was very protective of Mr. A. She had a hard time looking at herself as a battered woman (as it takes 2 to tango). Then in reading from men who lived with her none described her as a liar. She kept things from her parents…typical of a teenager…lying is not unusual- The Arch Bishop lied, Lance Armstrong lied, Bill Clinton lied…about image…a lot of us lie about stuff less serious than killing someone.
5. Could Jodi Arias have exaggerated to help her case? She tended to minimize.
6. Is it possible friends and family may have embellished in an effort to help her? I guess, except that friends and family didn’t seem to go overboard. I read Mr. A.’s words directed at her, the disrespect…looked at the escalation process. They didn’t say ‘Gee, she’s this wonderful person.’
7. What did you discover about Travis when looking at email, text, and IMs to other women?’ Tend to push sexual limits, pushed PPL on them. He was very good with women but also irritated women- was pushy. He knew how to play them effectively. He shared his faith- insinuated his way into their confidence. He empathized with them, one husband didn’t let her have friends…he said ‘go to the Bishop.’ Another’s ex-husband was verbally and physically abusive and addicted to porn…he empathized.
8. Is it common for women in abusive relationships to snap and commit violent acts towards long-standing perpetrators? “…In a self-defense kind of situation <stricken from the record> not easy to answer with Yes or No// (// means Martinez objects and the Judge goes on to the next question).
9. Is it possible for the survivor to be the perpetrator? It’s very possible for somebody to lash back. Michael Johnson calls it ‘violent resistance’ – yelling or hitting back. Most of the time violent resistance is an explosion of yelling and screaming. It could be physical or violent. Haven’t seen it (with women) much without a weapon.
10. We have heard that Jodi kicked her mother, called her sister stupid, etc. , So would this characterize Jodi Arias as an abuser? I believe that happened when (she) was a teenager- an angry teen. Calling her sister stupid is not uncommon. Kicking and hitting her Mom, I don’t approve -teens do a lot of things not good to do. Anger with her Mom was part of her history. There’s no evidence of physical violence with her Mom as an adult.
11. Why would a perpetrator be abusive in one relationship, but not another? I missed)
12. Have you ever seen situations where victims kill their partners because they see no other way out? Depends on the level of intensity. Travis’ relationships were not long-term, it takes time; it’s a progression, it doesn’t happen right away. Lisa felt disrespected in a short relationship- they broke up 3 times. Others didn’t like how he talked…via the internet. It’s not difficult to be non-aggressive with someone not spending time with you…from folks I’ve worked with relationships were intimate the person they are most committed to gets the most abuse.
13. Is it conceivable that a woman can kill her partner just to get away from the abuse? I worked on one case where that was true. It is conceivable but it is rare. Is it possible that Travis and Jodi were in this type of relationship? It doesn’t appear to me- there’s no evidence of it…no evidence it’s true. Travis is the one escalating and being aggressive and in her prior 2 relationships there’s no evidence she was violent, aggressive or jealous. Could there have been abuse on both sides? Generally with DV it doesn’t stay at that level and the latest research is over time the male gets more violent.
14. If Jodi slapped and kicked her mother in the past could she be seen as a perpetrator? She could be seen as aggressive when she kicked and hit her mother in the past. I look at power differences//
15. Do you feel it’s possible Jodi could be exaggerating abuse events? I think anything’s possible when I look at the kind of escalation with Travis and listen to friends it’s very difficult for me to believe that.
16. How does it affect your assessment when you do not have the full story from both individuals? Often murder cases don’t have the story <Objection> there’s no access to the other side. You gather the info you can-I read boxes of info…and get as much as I can from both sides so I’m not biased.
17. In your opinion, is it possible that Jodi could have also been a perpetrator in her relationship with Travis? I don’t see any evidence of that.
18. Is it possible Jodi could be guilty of psychological abuse towards Travis? Anything’s possible, just no evidence of it. I looked at prior (longer) relationships and neither Brewer (4 years) nor Matt (2 years) indicated she was abusive, controlling, jealous or manipulative. And she remained friends with them.
19. Could any of Travis’s actions be considered defensive, rather than abusive? Any of us can get angry or upset, the difference is the kind of tirades- beyond defensive to the extreme.
20. Can two children facing identical abuse situations end up handling them differently as they become adults? Sure- when you grow up in your family it’s not just what’s dealt but how you see it’s dealt. Siblings can see things differently. You can find someone you can count on- Uncle, Grandfather, you can change. Some blame their self or the parent. Community can help- church, scouts, sports teams-positive things can have an impact. However, the brain’s learning level from (age) 0-6 is exponential. People with really negative things in family of origin need some counseling.
21. Does it concern you at all that you can’t get a full and complete story from Travis? Yes, I wish I could…I can only take what I got from friends, women, his writing. I got as complete a story as I could get.
22. How quickly can abuse escalate from the first time two people meet? It’s very different. Usually there’s a period of time where it’s not happening…it varies…everyone’s different. Once it escalates there’s a //
23. Prior to Lisa Andrews and Jodi, do you know who Travis’s girlfriend was? Can you describe this relationship? (I missed some due to link going down) something about the best years of her life…loaned him money, not sure he ever paid back.
24. It has been proven Jodi has lied multiple times since killing Travis, how are you able to know everything she is saying is truthful? I don’t…I got collateral evidence…I believe she’s telling me the truth about most things. Because she lied after the killing doesn’t make her a liar. She was a frightened human being – it doesn’t make her a liar. (As far as) her character before this event- I didn’t hear she was a liar from anyone.
25. Did you ever see any proof that Travis physically abused Jodi? The only thing I saw was a broken finger.
26. Isn’t it possible that Jodi did not write some things in her journal because they never happened? It’s possible although Travis didn’t rite in his journal//
27. Have any of your patients ever killed their partner? Yes.
28. Are you able to confirm Jodi ever abused Travis? No evidence of it, and her relationships with other men, or any exchanges between the two of them. It’s possible but there’s no evidence to support it.
29. Would you classify Travis’s and Jodi’s relationship as a love/hate relationship? I would classify it as an abusive relationship.
30. Is the violence level of Jodi’s response to neutralize the threat consistent with what a victim of abuse would do? Part of a conversation- she told him she’d bring them.
31. Other than Jodi’s word, what evidence do you have she received Spiderman undies or the pink tshirt from Travis? (I missed)
32. Has Jodi continued to write in her journal after June 4, 2008? I haven’t seen any after June 4th. I don’t know.
33. Please provide the time frame when you worked with Jodi. I spent 44 hours in the jail with Jodi (Judge asks ‘dates?” ) First visit- October 2011-2 days, then within 3-4…don’t know exactly. Four to five different visits, 8-6 hours, 6-7 hours, 3-4 hours. Spread out.
34. Regarding the argument in the car, you stated Travis slapped her across the face. Is that exactly what Jodi told you? No it isn’t exactly what she told me- the jaw I think of as the face//
35. Please state how confident you are that Jodi did not lie to you? That she did not lie to me about what? Like ever? I don’t believe she lied to me about significant things…it’s possible.
36. Can you describe the connection between Travis’s childhood and his behavior? Yeah it’s not vague at all. The most significant factor in abusive relationship is the worst child abuse equals the difficulty in having a non-abusive relationship and Travis’s childhood was incredibly abusive. His Dan kicked the door in, threw him across the room, there was no food, Mom slept for days and Dad wasn’t around. They abused each other. (Travis) ate moldy bread. When exposed to this you learn combat survival-hyper-vigilance. There’s a direct link between what you’re exposed to and how you handle it. Especially with no intervention.
37. Are you aware if any ex girlfriends of Travis said he was physically abusive to them? There were no ex’s who said Travis was physically abusive.
38. If Jodi was that upset at what Travis was saying to her in text messages, why didn’t she stop talking to him?
39. Other than Jodi, did you interview anyone else face to face? No I did not.
40. Are you aware Jodi’s grandparents house was broken into two days after the IM session? Yes, I’m aware the Grandparent’s house was broken into.
41. Wasn’t it a known fact that Travis was trying to find someone he could marry? It was a known fact. I just…the conversations would not lead you to believe he was trying to woo somebody- sexual from the beginning.
42. Have any of the women who Travis had a relationship with said that he abused them psychologically, verbally, or physically? Lisa-in putting her down, not respecting her values, said being a teacher would suck. Another girl complained…Nicole- Travis told her no one would date her. It’s important to me//
43. Did anyone ever mention concern or suspicion of abuse regarding Travis or Jodi during interviews with other people? Matt mentioned he believed she was verbally abused and maybe physically abused.
44. Please define the word “survivor”. We used to use ‘victim’, survivor is more positive and sounds better.
45. Could a survivor also be a perpetrator? Yes…with violent resistance they can lash out. The dominant aggressor who is the primary offender has the most power.
46. Could a female abuse, batter, or terrorize a man to the point of killing him? Yes, women can be perpetrators. The percentage …in surveys, ER rooms, crime reports//
47. You claim that Jodi not getting medical attention for her finger is consistent with other battered women. What would prevent the battered person from getting medical attention and lying about the cause of it? There are people who get medical attention and lie about the cause.
48. If the name-calling was only between Jodi and Travis, wouldn’t this just be name calling and not character assassination? No, character assassination doesn’t have to be in the presence of others and usually doesn’t. It tears apart who you are and is worse because you love that person.
49. How do you validate the information presented to you without talking to both parties in this relationship? By using collaborative data. Looking at different things- like he wrote ‘I don’t like whores’//
50. Wouldn’t you say it’s reasonable that Travis might get irritated that he couldn’t leave a voice mail for a week while Jodi’s mailbox was full? Well he said ‘empty it out’ without ‘please- that’s how I read it.
51. Is it possible your view of men in general is skewed or biased towards them being abusive? Actually I have a lot of male friends, family and a son. No…they are not abusive. I have worked with male co-facilitators one with for 20 years. (She goes on & on about men she’s worked with, her Dad, brothers…etc.)
52. Did you real all of Jodi’s and Travis’s journals or just the portions provided to you? I only read portions- what was provided.
53. Do you believe it was possible that Travis said some of the negative things towards Jodi because she was stalking him and he wanted to distance himself from her? No I don’t believe that.
54. Did Travis speak negatively in his journals bout any of the women he was seeing? No I don’t believe he said anything negative in his journals.
55. In the magazines you sent Jodi in jail, she wrote hidden messages in some of them. Were those hidden messages for you? I had no idea she had written hidden messages to anyone. And I didn’t receive any.
56. Jodi’s old friend said she liked to play the victim. Even though that was in high school, is it possible those traits stayed with her? I don’t have any evidence of that.
57. Is there any reason we should believe Jodi has not manipulated you as she has others? I’m not sure who you believe she’s manipulated. //
58. Why have you looked at Jodi multiple times during the cross to meet eyes with her and give her a smile? I have done on occasion just to acknowledge her. I looking at friends from school. I’ve tried to avoid looking at her. Let’s see…Maria’s in the front row, my father was here yestrerday…
59. Do you have personal feelings for Jodi or feel sorry for her? I have feelings…I have liked Jodi in terms of working with her. We haven’t had a relationship since the 44 hours I spent in jail. I’m clear on my own boundaries. If I thought it would get in my way I would step away from it.
60. You looked at Jodi, gave a half smile and shrugged your shoulders when Mr. Martinez was marking evidence. Why did you do this? Wow – I didn’t even know I was doing it. I don’t even remember…I don’t know what to say.
61. Why would you believe the things Jodi told you happened before the killing? I believe those things because of corroborating data. I wasn’t there during the physical incidents…much was corroborated with other sources.
62. Hypothetically, if you were to discover Jodi exaggerated rather than understated the abuse would you have a different opinion? I would certainly re-look at things because that would be important. Bur rage and escalation with Travis in his relationships and leading up to things; his childhood abuse- writes ‘I don’t like whores’// Not just what Jodi says, what Travis says and his behavior. You don’t have to be perfect to be a victim of abuse.
63. When assessing this case, to which did you more weight: written or verbal communication? Well, I had much more written so more weight to written. Interview with Jodi in jail- sometimes behind a screen I really couldn’t see clearly (the screen)- got inflection and tone in an uncomfortable environment. I relied more on written.
64. Do you feel that being able to interview Travis gives Jodi an unfair advantage in telling their shared story of abuse? I wish I could have interview Travis. I got part of my info from his close friends. The way people see him, his own words, childhood, interviews. I feel like I got a picture of Travis.
65. Are you aware of phone conversations made before, during, or after the texts and IMs you reviewed? I’m aware there were phone calls…and I get confused which is which…the sex tape was recorded. I don’t know if there were more recordings, I had texts, e-m’s etc.
66. Did you ask Jodi if phone calls were ever part of those exchanges? Yeah, follow up calls made I didn’t have dates on those.
67. Of the 18 forensic cases, how many were cases where a male was the victim of abuse and not the perpetrator? Of the forensic cases that I’ve done//there were at least 2and there as one where the father killed the son in law//
68. You pursued family of origin for Travis, why didn’t you pursue Jodi’s? I did assess Jodi’s family for abuse- her level of abuse was much lower than Travis’…same sex role modeling- women victims as opposed to perpetrators- I did not rule that out. Travis’ was far more violent.